Page 2 of 5 FirstFirst 12345 LastLast
Results 16 to 30 of 68
  1. #16

    Re: Football and Faith



    Quote Originally Posted by NCRAVEN View Post
    I don't see it that way at all. I see him saying to see "it" is seeing the shared belief that has made a the bond among the players thus making the TEAM better, is more validation of a God, maybe a bit of confirmation bias on Harbaughs part, but I know way read that as we believe in God more - so he helps us win.
    I never said it's about who believes in God "more".




  2. #17
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Clayton,NC
    Posts
    7,745

    Re: Football and Faith

    Quote Originally Posted by TheExtraPoint View Post
    I never said it's about who believes in God "more".
    Well... why else would God help them win over another team doing the same thing?
    We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid. - Benjamin Franklin




  3. #18
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Detroit Michigan
    Posts
    1,908
    The sentiment "I support others rights to believe what they want" is generally honest, but usually hides the preposition, "as long as they don't take their belief seriously."

    Reactions like the one ExtraPoint is having show what happens when someone shows they take their belief seriously.
    “Great minds discuss ideas. Average minds discuss events. Small minds discuss people.”

    –Eleanor Roosevelt




  4. #19

    Re: Football and Faith

    Quote Originally Posted by ActualSpamBot View Post
    As for the original premise, I agree with OP that as a non believer, I feel a certain discomfort when I'm expected to participate or be included in other people's religious practices like team prayers or statements like Harbaugh's that paint every single player, coach, and staff member into the category of "believer" whether they are or not. It creates a feeling of "better play along" that is about as much fun as pretending to enjoy a bad meal to spare a host's feelings.
    I understand the point you are trying to make, and I agree. But is that the case here? Look at the picture. I see about 20 players and 1 or 2 coaches. Ummm...where is everybody else if they are expected to participate? In fact, of those players that are pictured, it looks like only a handful are truly "invested" in what Harbaugh is saying. Most are just standing there. Several have their back to him!!!

    As far as the pre-game prayer. Again, are the players expected to actually participate? Or just be in the room? I suspect some players do pray to God (or their God) for spiritual motivation. Some may meditate. Some may play Grand Theft Auto. As a Christian, doesn't make any difference to me...

    Harbaugh is obviously a religious person..and he brings that to his work. If some want to use that as a validation of their own faith, or if it makes them more of Ravens fan, whatever. Fine with me. But until someone brings me evidence that this in any way impacts how the team is managed, I still say this is much to do about nothing.

    I guess what I'm saying is that if you have faith, great. Enjoy it. But for those of us who don't, it can be very tricky water trying to incorporate religion and secular systems together without leaving someone feeling put out.
    I think it can be tricky for all involved.




  5. #20

    Re: Football and Faith

    Quote Originally Posted by NCRAVEN View Post
    Well... why else would God help them win over another team doing the same thing?
    That's above my paygrade my friend, and not my argument.

    All I'm saying is that it is implied in the quote is that there is a correlation between belief in a God and outcomes in sports. It doesn't really make a lot of sense to me, just as it doesn't make a lot of sense to JohnBKistler that this would make people who don't share that belief feel uncomfortable.




  6. #21

    Re: Football and Faith

    Quote Originally Posted by TheExtraPoint View Post
    All I'm saying is that it is implied in the quote is that there is a correlation between belief in a God and outcomes in sports. It doesn't really make a lot of sense to me, just as it doesn't make a lot of sense to JohnBKistler that this would make people who don't share that belief feel uncomfortable.
    Well, if you are uncomfortable because Harbaugh is outspoken with his religious beliefs, or that he believes "God is in our huddle" (which I think is an incorrect interpretation of what he was saying, but who knows for sure?) I can understand that. Hell, as a Christian, I am uncomfortable with other Christians that feel they need a bull-horn on main street to practice our religion. I am more of a walk-the-walk parishioner.

    If you are uncomfortable because you think that his beliefs are mandated to the team and that non-conformity has consequences. Well, yeah, until someone can provide any sort of evidence to support that claim, it doesn't make a whole lot of sense.




  7. #22

    Re: Football and Faith

    Quote Originally Posted by Sirdowski View Post
    The sentiment "I support others rights to believe what they want" is generally honest, but usually hides the preposition, "as long as they don't take their belief seriously."

    Reactions like the one ExtraPoint is having show what happens when someone shows they take their belief seriously.
    Typical high-minded nonsense. In reality, there's a difference between respecting someone's right to their convictions (whatever their nature) and merely wondering about the implications of interjecting those convictions into what has historically been an areligious arena.

    What would Frank Zappa think?




  8. #23
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Clayton,NC
    Posts
    7,745

    Re: Football and Faith

    Quote Originally Posted by TheExtraPoint View Post
    That's above my paygrade my friend, and not my argument.

    All I'm saying is that it is implied in the quote is that there is a correlation between belief in a God and outcomes in sports. It doesn't really make a lot of sense to me, just as it doesn't make a lot of sense to JohnBKistler that this would make people who don't share that belief feel uncomfortable.
    By your take and by mine, I think it's clearly in the interpretation of the quote.

    We all have our bias' and whether you see it or not, you seem to be to read too much into what he's saying, maybe to confirm your bias. What that is I don't know, I could speculate (and of course, I feel I already do know) but lets just not do that for now.
    We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid. - Benjamin Franklin




  9. #24
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Clayton,NC
    Posts
    7,745

    Re: Football and Faith

    Quote Originally Posted by TheExtraPoint View Post
    Typical high-minded nonsense. In reality, there's a difference between respecting someone's right to their convictions (whatever their nature) and merely wondering about the implications of interjecting those convictions into what has historically been an areligious arena.

    What would Frank Zappa think?
    Not saying you're guilty of this, but What Sir is saying, has clearly been displayed in this thread.
    We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid. - Benjamin Franklin




  10. #25
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    2,401
    Blog Entries
    1

    Re: Football and Faith

    Speaking on the replies about whether prayers are directed towards swaying the outcome of a game:

    I know that the prayers are not directly saying, "Dear Lord, make us win today!"

    The prayers are well intended usually stating how "we pray you keep both teams safe" and "allow us to play up to our abilities that you have instilled in us."

    I acknowledge that I was off base there.

    I greatly appreciated Coach Harbaugh's remarks about respecting his players rights to believe what they wished and to share their opinions freely. It seems backwards to me that he would then go and turn around to make a blanket statement like this.

    The majority of Ravens players and coaches are probably some form of Christian. But his statement is unfair to those that aren't. It's not a huge deal but it can hurt to feel like you are an outsider because of your beliefs.

    I think there are numerous types of hobbies or activities that are great to be team wide morale builders. I don't think something like religion should be one of those things.

    I guess it comes down to personal preference. My preference is for our favorite team to not alienate anybody, accidental or otherwise.




  11. #26
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Clayton,NC
    Posts
    7,745

    Re: Football and Faith

    Quote Originally Posted by JMUpurkfool View Post
    I think there are numerous types of hobbies or activities that are great to be team wide morale builders. I don't think something like religion should be one of those things.
    Maybe it's semantics, but I don't think it's religion specifically. Moreso faith in God or a God, spiritual if you will.

    Not a big deal, just a bit of a literal person.
    We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid. - Benjamin Franklin




  12. #27
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    2,401
    Blog Entries
    1

    Re: Football and Faith

    I appreciate that this has remained pretty respectful. Tough topic obviously.

    There's no hard evidence that the organization would favor a Theist player over an Agnostic or Atheist player.

    I would certainly say that it's possible, even from a subconscious standpoint. Harbaugh, Newsome, and Decosta have been very open about the fact that they look into a players upbringing and background when they are scouting them. They tend to bring in players who have persevered tough times. It's not unthinkable to reason that faith has come up in these conversations before.

    I think that's probably one of the last things they would even consider looking at but if all other things were equal who would Harbaugh be more likely to take?

    This is completely hypothetical but I think it merits discussion.




  13. #28
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Pikesville
    Posts
    4,268
    Quote Originally Posted by NCRAVEN View Post
    Not saying you're guilty of this, but What Sir is saying, has clearly been displayed in this thread.
    By who? One lone nut who was promptly shut down by both sides?
    My motto was always to keep swinging. Whether I was in a slump or feeling badly or having trouble off the field, the only thing to do was keep swinging. -Hank Aaron




  14. #29
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    2,401
    Blog Entries
    1

    Re: Football and Faith

    Quote Originally Posted by NCRAVEN View Post
    Maybe it's semantics, but I don't think it's religion specifically. Moreso faith in God or a God, spiritual if you will.

    Not a big deal, just a bit of a literal person.
    I don't think Harbaugh is referring to just any God though. I haven't heard him relate any stories to the media about Muhammad or Krishna. Over the past five years I have heard him recall countless biblical stories in press conferences and locker room speeches.

    I guess I should have put 'Christianity' in place of 'religion'.




  15. #30
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Clayton,NC
    Posts
    7,745

    Re: Football and Faith

    Quote Originally Posted by JMUpurkfool View Post
    I don't think Harbaugh is referring to just any God though. I haven't heard him relate any stories to the media about Muhammad or Krishna. Over the past five years I have heard him recall countless biblical stories in press conferences and locker room speeches.

    I guess I should have put 'Christianity' in place of 'religion'.
    Muhammad is a prophet, Muslims and Christian's believe in the same God. Not trying to argue, just trying to stay factual.

    But I haven't heard (not saying there aren't any) of Harbaugh talk about Jesus. My Main point though is there is a difference between between spiritual and religious.

    1. Believe in God
    2. Believe in God and Jesus was His son or b) Believe in God and Mohammed or etc.
    3. Believing in a specific religion, baptist, catholic etc.
    We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid. - Benjamin Franklin




Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Russell Street Report Website Design by D3Corp Ocean City Maryland