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Thread: Football and Faith
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11-30-2012, 01:29 PM #13Veteran Poster
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Re: Football and Faith
Well, because I do believe in the same god as Harbaugh, the question isn't really directed towards me.
But I will say this, as a fan of the Baltimore Ravens, I do not put my time, my money and my emotional investment into the team to find any sort of spiritual reward (there are other channels in my life for that). I do it to be entertained and to enjoy their successes (of course, I also agonize when they fail). In return, I only ask from them one thing: a professional effort on and off the field. With very little exception, I think I have gotten that from the Ravens. And the wins are a nice by-product.
The fact that Harbaugh is very out-front with his religion doesn't necessarily cause me to be more invested in the team. I don't think Billick ever referenced god as part of his coaching, and I was very happy with the job he did, for the most part.
So until someone shows me an example of how Harbaugh's religious faith determines how the team is managed, I see this as more or less a non-issue.Last edited by JohnBKistler; 11-30-2012 at 01:35 PM.
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11-30-2012, 01:43 PM #14Steve Flacco, Apparently
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Please ignore lob, he's making rational unbelievers look like shrill, militant nutters.
As for the original premise, I agree with OP that as a non believer, I feel a certain discomfort when I'm expected to participate or be included in other people's religious practices like team prayers or statements like Harbaugh's that paint every single player, coach, and staff member into the category of "believer" whether they are or not. It creates a feeling of "better play along" that is about as much fun as pretending to enjoy a bad meal to spare a host's feelings.
Now obviously John has much more access to the team and thus knows more than I how his statement will be perceived by the only people who's opinion of him ACTUALLY matter, but I can state unequivocally that had I been a member of that team or coaching staff, I would feel cut out of the larger whole by his decision to bring God into a professional secular environment.
Ray Lewis's tendency to do the same thing is one of the reasons I always found his words hokey, even when his actions were awe inspiring. After Jermaine Lewis's son Geronimo was still born, I remember seeing a clip of Ray telling Jermaine that that was proof that God had great rewards in store for the Ravens. As if a team winning a game was worth the loss of one's child. If someone said that to me to justify the still birth of my kid, I can't imagine I would quite be able to control my reaction.
I guess what I'm saying is that if you have faith, great. Enjoy it. But for those of us who don't, it can be very tricky water trying to incorporate religion and secular systems together without leaving someone feeling put out.My motto was always to keep swinging. Whether I was in a slump or feeling badly or having trouble off the field, the only thing to do was keep swinging. -Hank Aaron
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Re: Football and Faith
I don't see it that way at all. I see him saying to see "it" (payoff like that) is seeing the shared belief that has made a the bond among the players thus making the TEAM better, is more validation of a God, maybe a bit of confirmation bias on Harbaughs part, but I know way read that as we believe in God more - so he helps us win.
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11-30-2012, 01:49 PM #16
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11-30-2012, 01:57 PM #18
The sentiment "I support others rights to believe what they want" is generally honest, but usually hides the preposition, "as long as they don't take their belief seriously."
Reactions like the one ExtraPoint is having show what happens when someone shows they take their belief seriously.“Great minds discuss ideas. Average minds discuss events. Small minds discuss people.”
–Eleanor Roosevelt
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11-30-2012, 01:58 PM #19Veteran Poster
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Re: Football and Faith
I understand the point you are trying to make, and I agree. But is that the case here? Look at the picture. I see about 20 players and 1 or 2 coaches. Ummm...where is everybody else if they are expected to participate? In fact, of those players that are pictured, it looks like only a handful are truly "invested" in what Harbaugh is saying. Most are just standing there. Several have their back to him!!!
As far as the pre-game prayer. Again, are the players expected to actually participate? Or just be in the room? I suspect some players do pray to God (or their God) for spiritual motivation. Some may meditate. Some may play Grand Theft Auto. As a Christian, doesn't make any difference to me...
Harbaugh is obviously a religious person..and he brings that to his work. If some want to use that as a validation of their own faith, or if it makes them more of Ravens fan, whatever. Fine with me. But until someone brings me evidence that this in any way impacts how the team is managed, I still say this is much to do about nothing.
I guess what I'm saying is that if you have faith, great. Enjoy it. But for those of us who don't, it can be very tricky water trying to incorporate religion and secular systems together without leaving someone feeling put out.
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11-30-2012, 02:07 PM #20
Re: Football and Faith
That's above my paygrade my friend, and not my argument.
All I'm saying is that it is implied in the quote is that there is a correlation between belief in a God and outcomes in sports. It doesn't really make a lot of sense to me, just as it doesn't make a lot of sense to JohnBKistler that this would make people who don't share that belief feel uncomfortable.
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11-30-2012, 02:29 PM #21Veteran Poster
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Re: Football and Faith
Well, if you are uncomfortable because Harbaugh is outspoken with his religious beliefs, or that he believes "God is in our huddle" (which I think is an incorrect interpretation of what he was saying, but who knows for sure?) I can understand that. Hell, as a Christian, I am uncomfortable with other Christians that feel they need a bull-horn on main street to practice our religion. I am more of a walk-the-walk parishioner.
If you are uncomfortable because you think that his beliefs are mandated to the team and that non-conformity has consequences. Well, yeah, until someone can provide any sort of evidence to support that claim, it doesn't make a whole lot of sense.
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11-30-2012, 02:32 PM #22
Re: Football and Faith
Typical high-minded nonsense. In reality, there's a difference between respecting someone's right to their convictions (whatever their nature) and merely wondering about the implications of interjecting those convictions into what has historically been an areligious arena.
What would Frank Zappa think?
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Re: Football and Faith
By your take and by mine, I think it's clearly in the interpretation of the quote.
We all have our bias' and whether you see it or not, you seem to be to read too much into what he's saying, maybe to confirm your bias. What that is I don't know, I could speculate (and of course, I feel I already do know) but lets just not do that for now.
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