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  1. #31

    Re: compares home Joe vs. road Joe

    I don't know how much you can read into him missing another option on a few select plays. I suspect they are making their case with these 2 plays, and in reality there are many examples of him doing the same thing. I realize they don't want to go over example after example because of space restrictions, but I guarantee they can do the same thing for EVERY quarterback in the league, even Manning, Rodgers and Brady. Meaning the Qb may pick an open receiver and there was a "better" route that got open on the same play. The difference may be that Joe does it much more on the road then at home, and he may certainly do it a few more times that the other guys I mentioned, but they all make choices during a game. These things happen SO fast in the NFL, it just takes making the decision really quickly to a whole new level. Some guys are Fantastic at it like Manning, Brady, etc., and some a just good at it like Joe. They all miss on some routes though.

  2. #32

    Re: compares home Joe vs. road Joe

    Found another stat.

    Flaccos QB rating with 2 WRs: 70.
    with 3 WRs: 87.
    with 4 WRs: 92.
    This doesn`t seem to be a league wide trend either.
    So it seems, by playing conservative, with fewer WRs on the field, where not playing to Flaccos strength. We`re actually taking it away. One more reason for Cam to be gone.

  3. #33

    Re: compares home Joe vs. road Joe

    Quote Originally Posted by LC_Ravens_87 View Post
    Have to take issue with the article claiming that the O-line is virtually the same in the two games they compared.

    Against Dallas--1 sack, 3 qb hits

    Against San Diego--5 sacks, 6 qb hits

    Granted Flacco passed it 15 more times against the Chargers, and the ravens ran almost double the number of plays against the Chargers as they did against the Cowboys.

    But also against Dallas there were 2 TFL and against San Diego there were 9 TKL.

    Not the same level of performance by the men up front if you ask me.
    I think in the article, they are saying that the O-line performance was similar only in the 2 plays they were dissecting, not necessarily the whole game. That is the way I took it.

  4. #34
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Blog Entries

    Re: compares home Joe vs. road Joe

    The problem with that San Diego play is that it was like 3rd and 20 something. Pitta was open but also had four Chargers within 6-7 yards of him. If that ball was under thrown even a little than it was an interception.

    I'm sure Flacco was a little apprehensive on the play as well, because KO had just absolutely whiffed on the previous play and Joe had .2 seconds to throw the ball.

    On the shallow to Pitta, I can guarantee you that Torrey is at least the third read on that play. The play is designed for Jacoby to clear the linebacker or safety out of the area for Pitta. Pitta was open and he hit him for a first down. I believe that his next read would be Jacoby if the player stayed closer to the line of scrimmage and Joe would then move to Torrey.

  5. #35

    Re: compares home Joe vs. road Joe

    I think another flaw of the article is that they compare Flacco going for a long pass on 3rd and long and completing it versus a 3rd and like 5 and not throwing it long if he waited. On third down, I imagine the primary thought is to throw for first down on the safest play possible. So throwing it on the shorter route to Pitta to get the first down instead of waiting until Smith gets opened further down field is a bad example. I think most good QBs would throw it for the first down to Pitta when hes open on a short route versus waiting for a longer developing down field pass on third down.

  6. #36
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    where my head touches the pillow
    Blog Entries

    Re: compares home Joe vs. road Joe

    is it me or when we are on the road WRs routes seem to go 10YRDS out and to the sidelines, and TE's run that same drag route underneath short of the 1st down marker..ALL THE TIME, then deep post routes where??? to the sidelines, the times they do let boldin go to the middle of the field is 9/10 money. There's no slants, no rubs, no pick plays, screens never work or they do once and we forget them. Nothin to help Joe get into a rhythm; I blame this squearely on Cam, it also puts alot of pressure on an already average Oline to look way worse. Its like Cam keep tryna hit the long ball to get Joe in a rhythm and Joe keeps missing so he never does.

  7. #37

    Re: compares home Joe vs. road Joe

    Deep pass plays are timing plays, where the QB is throwing to a spot downfield with the expectation that the receiver will reach that spot on time and in time to catch the ball.
    When you constantly send receivers deep, the opposing teams D's prepare and practice for it. They either double cover those routes or focus on disrupting the synchronicity between Joe and his receivers by jamming them at the line, rerouting them right off the line and/or just flat-out interfering with them--gambling that they won't get flagged because usually they don't.
    Some of Joe's "overthrows" are actually accurate passes were the receiver was unable to get to the correct spot in time because he got held, arm-barred, grabbed, or totally bumped off his route.
    For example, in the Chargers game, Joe threw a deep pass down the middle of the field to Torrey that fell in the end zone (or close to it) about 20 yards away from Torrey. At the time Fouts and Eagle wondered where Joe was throwing it, so they went back to the replay and it showed the Chargers safety running straight at and slamming right into Torrey when they were a good 20 yards downfield. No flag for PI or even illegal contact, of course.
    And when Fouts saw that he started to say something but then stopped--almost as if he realized that his Chargers had gotten away with one and didn't want to call too much attention to that.
    That pass would've been a TD too.

    Joe is like every other QB--he has to get into a good rhythm to play his best. Deep passes are low percentage passes under normal circumstances, but when the opposing D is prepared and sitting on those routes (likewise with all those out routes) then they become even lower percentage passes. Which obviously makes it impossible for Joe (and the receivers and O-line) to get into any kind of rhythm.

    The idea that both Cam and Harbs seem to be oblivious to this is discouraging. And if that is the effect that it has on us fans, to leave us discouraged, just imaging the impact on the players.

    Because Joe's not the only one who lacks confidence when the playcalling is wrong for the situation, all or most of the players on the offense are just as affected. That's why it isn't just Joe who looks bad during those times--the entire offense looks anemic.

    Too often, Cam sux, here's 1 of the main reasons why

  8. #38

    Re: compares home Joe vs. road Joe

    Only have a minute, but here's the problem I have with this...

    At home, Flacco is 23 for 36 for 397 yards on passes thrown between 10-19 yards downfield; on the road, hes 12 for 34 for 211 at the same distance.

    At home, Flacco has completed 18 of 37 passes thrown deeper than 20 yards for 578 yards; on the road, hes 8 for 32 for 221.
    This here makes up a big reason for the difference in Joe's (and the Ravens) offensive stats...if for no other reason than he's not extending drives and getting the team deeper into scoring range and getting those opportunities to score. The problem is, we're talking about the difference of about 15-20 completions.

    That's WAY too small a sample size to say there's an actual issue. 10-15 more completion differences at those spots gets him numbers probably fairly close to his home least enough that there isn't a massive difference. Meanwhile, the defenses of their home opponents is markedly different than that of their road opponents (especially if you consider Philly's early D which was rated quite highly until, ironically, they fired Castillo).

    Bottom line, one thing we simply can't rule out here is luck. Give him seven fewer completions at home on those balls, and ten more on the road - out of almost 400 passes thrown - and his numbers are likely a LOT closer. We can't rule this out as one of the big factors.

    - C -

    A blog about any and everything football.

    Twitter: oblong_spheroid

  9. #39
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Blog Entries

    Re: compares home Joe vs. road Joe

    Ok, I finally got to watch the game in it's entirety today, and I gotta say, WTF WTF WTF are you guys talking about Joe's confidence for? At NO point in this game did Joe seem to lack confidence. Sometimes I think half of you are smoking dope while watching the game!

    And another thing, the offensive line was HORRIBLE in the first half, and Jones and Boldin dropped two crucial passes that would have extended drives that probably would have led to scores. Joe did miss a couple of throws, including the one to Pitta near the end of the half, so he wasn't blameless for the lack of offense in the first half, but hello, lack of confidence? What is wrong with you people? Have you not been watching/listening to this guy in the five years he's been here? He certainly doesn't lack confidence, and he once again, came through in the clutch in a difficult situation. What is this, 4th quarter comeback #3 just this year?

    Are you people for real?

  10. #40

    Re: compares home Joe vs. road Joe

    Jacksonville last year, Texans this year, Joe was not playing with confidence in either game once it became clear that both the O + Cam did not have it that day.

  11. #41
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Central Baltimore
    Blog Entries

    Re: compares home Joe vs. road Joe

    My only quibble is that 2 plays is a joke of a study sample. Who knows, he may be right; but it's impossible to tell just because he found one play on the road where Flacco didn't let the long play develop.
    "A lot" is a two word expression denoting a great deal or greatly, as in "I like sunshine a lot." "Alot" is a lovable imaginary grammar monster. You can love a lot; you can love an alot; you can love alots a lot; but they are not the same thing.

  12. #42

    Re: compares home Joe vs. road Joe

    Quote Originally Posted by Flipping Birdie View Post
    My only quibble is that 2 plays is a joke of a study sample. Who knows, he may be right; but it's impossible to tell just because he found one play on the road where Flacco didn't let the long play develop.
    That's basically what I was trying to say except I was maybe giving the author the benefit of the doubt, that maybe he was just showing those 2 examples of the proposed problem but that he may have actually seen it several times. He tries to back it up with statistics so I assumed he was using those 2 plays as indicators of the bigger picture. I agree with Alien on the whole though, Joe doesn't seem to lack in the confidence department to me either.

  13. #43

    Re: compares home Joe vs. road Joe

    Could just be a mix of things: the play-calling, Joe not wanting to gamble as much when the game is close, execution from the WR/OL/RB, and of course the OTHER team's D-Line. Remember, they are playing at away and the other guys have the crowd and often the momentum on their side, especially if they've got Pro Bowlers on there. Some places are harder to win at than others. M&T, Heinz, the Falcon's place, and Seattle come to mind. The Ravens have faced some very good Defenses away this year with the Steelers being ranked num 1, texans 6, and chargers at 10. They're all a bit better ranked than the Ravens (low 20s) so im trying to keep things in perspective a little.


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