This is INSANITY

[NCRAVEN]

It doesnt take a rocket scientist to see that when Joe is in the no-huddle, our offense moves pretty consistently. The playcalling is a night and day difference. We use the middle of the field, we use slants, we use crossing patterns.... indisputable.

If Cam is calling the shots during the no-huddle, I would like an explanation as to why we dont see that playcalling throughout the entire game.

I would just like to point out that Andy Dalton has over 20 touchdowns this year. Joe is barely on pace to break 20 touchdowns for the YEAR. That is just pathetic. Our offense is pathetic. Its anemic. Joe is in his 5th year in the league and he is struggling this year to throw for 20 touchdowns. THAT IS PATHETIC and in no way will give us a win in the playoffs.

Is this cams fault? Is this Joes fault? Harbs?

To me, it seems that our inept playcalling for the first 50 minutes of most games causes our offensive issues. There are quite a few professionals who agree with me. Actually, I dont think I have ever seen one person successfully defend Cam. Why? Because you cant. Hes terrible. His philosophy is terrible and something out of the '60s.

If we dont straighten this shit out, we will end up chasing the bengals for years to come. Andy Dalton is already arguably better than Joe(although I fully believe with a different coordinator NOT NAMED NORV TURNER, he will become a true top ~7 QB).

So do I know for sure that Joe is calling the shots in the no-huddle? Absolutely not, however context clues point towards yes.

It's not Joe calling the plays or Cam, it's the play calling that changes.

I understand the thought process of, if we go hurry up and don't move the ball we constantly put our D on the field all game, who wants that?

So we go conservative, IMO, over conservative to avoid that. Then when we're down the play-calling changes to what you've listed above.

There has to be a balance so we can move the ball and score without going so conservative that we don't move the ball.

[rharris1986]

People devoid of intellect or cogent arguments always devolve into ad homind (you may want to check the dictionary to figure out what that means) attacks. The January 2013 results will be the same as the 2012 results irrespective of the names you call me.

excuse me MOD, but go fuck yourself rharris. Can't wait till you have to eat your words AGAIN

That is all

[landspeed]

People devoid of intellect or cogent arguments always devolve into ad homind (you may want to check the dictionary to figure out what that means) attacks. The January 2013 results will be the same as the 2012 results irrespective of the names you call me.

You are not allowed to criticize this team. They are perfect.

How dare you

[landspeed]

Rocket Scientist? Hyberbole much? There is no evidence to suggest whose calling the plays and when on every snap. Therefore your comments cannot be construed as factual as your suggesting. On some plays we might be able to tell whose calling the shots but to suggest that offense moves the ball because Joe is calling the plays is ludicrous.
As for chasing the bengals, really? Do you sincerely believe that? Come on.

Um, how can you not believe that we'll be chasing the bengals?

Andy Dalton has 23 touchdowns this year and will finish with over 30

Tell me the last time Joe threw for 30 touchdowns, let alone in his 2ND year.

We will be chasing the bengals unless changes are made. How can you not see that? They have a good defense with Geno Atkins who is a potential DPOY candidate. They have Vontaze Burfict who has been surprisingly good for them. They have Leon Hall. They have Ray Maualuga. They have another good pass rusher whos name is slipping my mind right now. They have a good O-Line and a solid running game.

How is that so hard to believe? Our pathetic offense wont be able to keep up with the bengals if we dont change our O-Philosophy.

As for whos calling the plays, I literally just wrote that Im basing it off of context clues. Pretty good context clues actually - Joe is clearly more in control when we play at home. He is in the shotgun more, we use our TE's, we use the middle of the field... When were on the road? Its literally this - Ray rice up the middle, comeback route to torrey smith/boldin, deep shot to one of our 3 receivers, and more vanilla ray rice runs RIGHT UP THE MIDDLE. That is until we get in the no huddle... then it starts to resemble our home offense.

[B-more Ravor]

It doesnt take a rocket scientist to see that when Joe is in the no-huddle, our offense moves pretty consistently. The playcalling is a night and day difference. We use the middle of the field, we use slants, we use crossing patterns.... indisputable.

If Cam is calling the shots during the no-huddle, I would like an explanation as to why we dont see that playcalling throughout the entire game.

Because they have been playing it more conservative on the road versus at home recently. They haven't been running no huddle on the road much anymore because it wasn't working earlier in the season. Not sure why, but a lot of people seem to be forgetting that we did start the season running no huddle/sugar huddle on the road and pretty much did so up until after the Houston game. And, it wasn't very successful.

Was Joe calling the plays then? [/rhetorical]

Seriously, Joe is not out there drawing up plays in the sand or calling the plays. Outside of Peyton, no QB really calls their own plays. The days of Johnny U drawing them up in the dirt have been over for a long time.

Plays are still called in from the sideline. Joe has the ability to audible and he has the ability to throw to whichever receiver he chooses. Of course, he has that option all the time, so whether it's no huddle or I-formation, he could throw across the middle any time he wants, it's not like there aren't ever receivers going across the middle.

[pslholder96]

Um, how can you not believe that we'll be chasing the bengals?

Andy Dalton has 23 touchdowns this year and will finish with over 30

Tell me the last time Joe threw for 30 touchdowns, let alone in his 2ND year.

We will be chasing the bengals unless changes are made. How can you not see that? They have a good defense with Geno Atkins who is a potential DPOY candidate. They have Vontaze Burfict who has been surprisingly good for them. They have Leon Hall. They have Ray Maualuga. They have another good pass rusher whos name is slipping my mind right now. They have a good O-Line and a solid running game.

How is that so hard to believe? Our pathetic offense wont be able to keep up with the bengals if we dont change our O-Philosophy.

As for whos calling the plays, I literally just wrote that Im basing it off of context clues. Pretty good context clues actually - Joe is clearly more in control when we play at home. He is in the shotgun more, we use our TE's, we use the middle of the field... When were on the road? Its literally this - Ray rice up the middle, comeback route to torrey smith/boldin, deep shot to one of our 3 receivers, and more vanilla ray rice runs RIGHT UP THE MIDDLE. That is until we get in the no huddle... then it starts to resemble our home offense.

I'm in agreement with a change in offensive philosophy but to use this and Dalton's recent stats as evidence that we will be chasing the bengals for years to come is way off base. Matter of fact despite our offensive inconsistentcy for the last 5 years the bengals have been chasing us. We've made the playoffs 5 straight years, the bengals once with a potential to make a second apearance this year.
Furthermore to suggest that we will be chasing the Bengals completely discounts how well run the ravens organization have been. It seems you don't trust our FO for the forseeable future.

[landspeed]

Because they have been playing it more conservative on the road versus at home recently. They haven't been running no huddle on the road much anymore because it wasn't working earlier in the season. Not sure why, but a lot of people seem to be forgetting that we did start the season running no huddle/sugar huddle on the road and pretty much did so up until after the Houston game. And, it wasn't very successful.

Was Joe calling the plays then? [/rhetorical]

Seriously, Joe is not out there drawing up plays in the sand or calling the plays. Outside of Peyton, no QB really calls their own plays. The days of Johnny U drawing them up in the dirt have been over for a long time.

Plays are still called in from the sideline. Joe has the ability to audible and he has the ability to throw to whichever receiver he chooses. Of course, he has that option all the time, so whether it's no huddle or I-formation, he could throw across the middle any time he wants, it's not like there aren't ever receivers going across the middle.

Im not concerned about the no huddle. I dont give a shit if we ever use it again.

Im concerned about the Playcalling. Just because we arent using the no huddle, doesnt mean we cant throw over the middle. Doesnt mean we cant use slants, and get torrey smith going in the short crossing game(ya know, the 1 time we use it, he runs for ~50 yards).

[landspeed]

I'm in agreement with a change in offensive philosophy but to use this and Dalton's recent stats as evidence that we will be chasing the bengals for years to come is way off base. Matter of fact despite our offensive inconsistentcy for the last 5 years the bengals have been chasing us. We've made the playoffs 5 straight years, the bengals once with a potential to make a second apearance this year.
Furthermore to suggest that we will be chasing the Bengals completely discounts how well run the ravens organization have been. It seems you don't trust our FO for the forseeable future.

Im sorry, but why are you discounting Daltons stats? Hes having a better year than Joe, in just his 2nd year. What does our FO have to do with anything? I mean, while were on the topic, we could go on about how our recent picks havent been too great, but Im not worried about that. My concern is not with the FO and not once did I imply that. My problem lies with the coaching. We could be the best team in the league with a 14-2 record, year in and year out while making deep playoff/SB runs every year.

5 years into the same offensive playbook, the same Oline for the most part, the same QB, the same RB and we still have "Communication Issues." Biggest crock of shit Ive ever heard. And if thats the case, then Cam absolutely has to go. That is ridiculous to STILL have communication issues 5 years down the road with few changes.

Saying that we will be chasing the Bengals does not discount our FO. Its the blatant truth. That is unless, we make some changes/shake some things up. We have all of the talent and the world on this team(offense in particular), yet we still cant figure out how to put it together consistently. Thats completely on the OC and ultimately the HC because hes not making sure the necessary moves are being taken to put our players in the best position to succeed.

[NCRAVEN]

Im sorry, but why are you discounting Daltons stats? Hes having a better year than Joe, in just his 2nd year. What does our FO have to do with anything?

9 -2 vs 6 -5
4 straight playoff appearances vs 1
1 division championship vs none
2 AFC championship game appearances vs None

Front office is very relevant. Especially if the other issues you listed about Cam being a big of an issue as you say he is, than FO is even more important, right?

[pslholder96]

Im sorry, but why are you discounting Daltons stats? Hes having a better year than Joe, in just his 2nd year. What does our FO have to do with anything? I mean, while were on the topic, we could go on about how our recent picks havent been too great, but Im not worried about that. My concern is not with the FO and not once did I imply that. My problem lies with the coaching. We could be the best team in the league with a 14-2 record, year in and year out while making deep playoff/SB runs every year.

5 years into the same offensive playbook, the same Oline for the most part, the same QB, the same RB and we still have "Communication Issues." Biggest crock of shit Ive ever heard. And if thats the case, then Cam absolutely has to go. That is ridiculous to STILL have communication issues 5 years down the road with few changes.

Saying that we will be chasing the Bengals does not discount our FO. Its the blatant truth. That is unless, we make some changes/shake some things up. We have all of the talent and the world on this team(offense in particular), yet we still cant figure out how to put it together consistently. Thats completely on the OC and ultimately the HC because hes not making sure the necessary moves are being taken to put our players in the best position to succeed.

To each his own I guess. Comparing Dalton and Flacco and using their track record as an arguement that the Ravens will be chasing the Bengals for years to come is silly. Dalton is in his second year in a different system with a very limited body of work. Flacco is a proven winner despiste the flaws in the system he operates in.
You are discounting our FO because you're giving the bengals way too much credit. The AFC north is and has been a race between two teams, us and the Steelers.
And for what's it worth, we have been "putting it together consistently", 5 straight playoff appearances. I'll acknowledge the ravens are not perfect but the organization is built for the long run with or without Cam Cameron.

[B-more Ravor]

Im not concerned about the no huddle. I dont give a shit if we ever use it again.

Really? Because just about every one of your quotes talks about the no huddle and how since the route are different, it must be because Joe is calling the plays.

Regardless, very little of my post was about the no huddle - that part was only in reference to your statement that because they run different routes in the no huddle, therefore Joe is calling the plays.

1. You continue to fail to factor into your argument that they did run no huddle earlier in the year - with many of the same routes/playcalls - and it didn't work.

2. You also seem to be failing to realize that there are multiple routes run on any given play and it's not necessarily the "playcall", but Flacco that is the cause of the throw not going across the middle.

[landspeed]

To each his own I guess. Comparing Dalton and Flacco and using their track record as an arguement that the Ravens will be chasing the Bengals for years to come is silly. Dalton is in his second year in a different system with a very limited body of work. Flacco is a proven winner despiste the flaws in the system he operates in.
You are discounting our FO because you're giving the bengals way too much credit. The AFC north is and has been a race between two teams, us and the Steelers.
And for what's it worth, we have been "putting it together consistently", 5 straight playoff appearances. I'll acknowledge the ravens are not perfect but the organization is built for the long run with or without Cam Cameron.

This is the problem, everyone here is content with "playoff appearances."

It should be superbowl or bust, nothing else. You are right though, this team is built for playoff appearances and not superbowl appearances.