This is INSANITY

[B-more Ravor]

It is not necessarily when Joe is calling the plays but when they start running plays that highlight his strengths. They only did that because they were down 10 points and time was running out. They spread the field with only one running back and started using horizontal routes. Sure as shit vertical routes starting opening up and Rice became more effective running the ball.

I am starting to think that Cam is not nearly as much to blame as Harbs. We have seen Cam try to make games a slugfest at the direction of Harbs. When the Ravens get down Harbs has to let Cam cut the offense loose and all of sudden Cam's play calling does not look to bad. They just need to open up the offense up out of the gate. Spread the defense out and let the offense work the entire field. Stop with the I formation run run throw a 10 yard out offense.

OK, fair enough, but that wasn't what I was commenting on. Landspeed seems to think that when Joe calls the plays we succeed and when Cam calls them we don't. I was just asking him how he knows when one or the other is calling the plays?

As far as spreading the field and going shotgun to play to Joe's strengths, weren't they doing that earlier in the year in Philly and KC and Houston and not having success doing it? Isn't that why everyone was complaining that they were abandoning the run too early and underutilizing Ray Rice?

Look, I'm not saying this to defend Cameron - I said two years ago that he should go - but I just find it interesting that the criticisms from some seem to change and often flip flop when it comes to our offense - basically, if we aren't putting up 30-35 points a week, then there's something wrong, regardless of what we are doing.

[Ravenswintitle]

The Raven's aren't going to get anywhere near the Superbowl. You are truely DELUSIONAL!

Exactly how many 4th and 29 conversions do you think the Ravens have in their back pocket?

it just kills you every time they win a game doesn't it? HA HA HA HA HA

[NCRAVEN]

OK, fair enough, but that wasn't what I was commenting on. Landspeed seems to think that when Joe calls the plays we succeed and when Cam calls them we don't. I was just asking him how he knows when one or the other is calling the plays?

As far as spreading the field and going shotgun to play to Joe's strengths, weren't they doing that earlier in the year in Philly and KC and Houston and not having success doing it? Isn't that why everyone was complaining that they were abandoning the run too early and underutilizing Ray Rice?

Look, I'm not saying this to defend Cameron - I said two years ago that he should go - but I just find it interesting that the criticisms from some seem to change and often flip flop when it comes to our offense - basically, if we aren't putting up 30-35 points a week, then there's something wrong, regardless of what we are doing.

Not entirely. I was complaining becuase on the road we seem to have a 3 route tree.

<---------i
l
9 yards l
l
<---------l
l
6 yards l
<----------l
l
3 yards l

It makes it so easy to under cut these routes by playing either a) inside technique or b) having a safety jump the routes. And also the Houston game, the team that leads the league in batted balls, it plays right in to Watts strength if you drop back turn throw in out route that goes right over his head or right at him.

The safeness of the offense and routes until we are down or down with little time left, is what bothers me. Open it up so we don't get down and don't rely on the last possession and hope we have the ball.

[Haloti92]

Doesn't this happen in every NFL game? A team is down by multiple scores so they go hurry up and pass a lot and have success against an opponent that is playing soft and sitting on a lead?

Yes it does. I think our TD drive against San Diego was largely, though not entirely, a result of this.

[Corey]

Thank you for acknowledging my presence.

But even you must be frustrated at how the offense is being managed (and I didn't even mention Cam)

Until now....

[RavensQB]

I want to win. But also sure as hell do not want to have to deal with another year of CAM's inept playcalling.

Win the Superbowl but get a young OC in here.

Hell if week 17 is not important. Let Joe run the offense and see what happens.

[GreatWhiteNorthRaven]

excuse me MOD, but go fuck yourself rharris. Can't wait till you have to eat your words AGAIN

That is all

[bacchys]

Look, I'm not saying this to defend Cameron - I said two years ago that he should go - but I just find it interesting that the criticisms from some seem to change and often flip flop when it comes to our offense - basically, if we aren't putting up 30-35 points a week, then there's something wrong, regardless of what we are doing.

That nails this fan base to a "T." Cam doesn't run enough, he doesn't use Ray Rice enough, he's too conservative and just calls run, run, pass, punt...

[RavensQB]

excuse me MOD, but go fuck yourself rharris. Can't wait till you have to eat your words AGAIN

That is all

Easy peasy.... That gets you TOS violations.

[bacchys]

Exactly. Cam is still calling in the plays, but it may be a combination of plays that allows Flacco to audible based on how the defense lines up.

If I've understood what I've heard correctly, the Pierce Fourth Down Fail was an audible by Flacco. Not seeing what he saw under center, I'm not going to say it was the wrong call. That play was killed by superiour effort on the part of the defense: they blasted through the o-line. There wasn't much Pierce could have done there. Like any good Ravens fan, at the time I was furious with Cam for "calling a stupid play," but hindsight and post-game press conferences suggest otherwise.

[landspeed]

That's an interesting comment. So, when exactly is it that Joe is calling the shots versus when Cam is calling the shots, and how exactly do you know which is which (or, actually, when is when)?

It doesnt take a rocket scientist to see that when Joe is in the no-huddle, our offense moves pretty consistently. The playcalling is a night and day difference. We use the middle of the field, we use slants, we use crossing patterns.... indisputable.

If Cam is calling the shots during the no-huddle, I would like an explanation as to why we dont see that playcalling throughout the entire game.

I would just like to point out that Andy Dalton has over 20 touchdowns this year. Joe is barely on pace to break 20 touchdowns for the YEAR. That is just pathetic. Our offense is pathetic. Its anemic. Joe is in his 5th year in the league and he is struggling this year to throw for 20 touchdowns. THAT IS PATHETIC and in no way will give us a win in the playoffs.

Is this cams fault? Is this Joes fault? Harbs?

To me, it seems that our inept playcalling for the first 50 minutes of most games causes our offensive issues. There are quite a few professionals who agree with me. Actually, I dont think I have ever seen one person successfully defend Cam. Why? Because you cant. Hes terrible. His philosophy is terrible and something out of the '60s.

If we dont straighten this shit out, we will end up chasing the bengals for years to come. Andy Dalton is already arguably better than Joe(although I fully believe with a different coordinator NOT NAMED NORV TURNER, he will become a true top ~7 QB).

So do I know for sure that Joe is calling the shots in the no-huddle? Absolutely not, however context clues point towards yes.

[pslholder96]

It doesnt take a rocket scientist to see that when Joe is in the no-huddle, our offense moves pretty consistently. The playcalling is a night and day difference. We use the middle of the field, we use slants, we use crossing patterns.... indisputable.

If Cam is calling the shots during the no-huddle, I would like an explanation as to why we dont see that playcalling throughout the entire game.

I would just like to point out that Andy Dalton has over 20 touchdowns this year. Joe is barely on pace to break 20 touchdowns for the YEAR. That is just pathetic. Our offense is pathetic. Its anemic. Joe is in his 5th year in the league and he is struggling this year to throw for 20 touchdowns. THAT IS PATHETIC and in no way will give us a win in the playoffs.

Is this cams fault? Is this Joes fault? Harbs?

To me, it seems that our inept playcalling for the first 50 minutes of most games causes our offensive issues. There are quite a few professionals who agree with me. Actually, I dont think I have ever seen one person successfully defend Cam. Why? Because you cant. Hes terrible. His philosophy is terrible and something out of the '60s.

If we dont straighten this shit out, we will end up chasing the bengals for years to come. Andy Dalton is already arguably better than Joe(although I fully believe with a different coordinator NOT NAMED NORV TURNER, he will become a true top ~7 QB).

So do I know for sure that Joe is calling the shots in the no-huddle? Absolutely not, however context clues point towards yes.

Rocket Scientist? Hyberbole much? There is no evidence to suggest whose calling the plays and when on every snap. Therefore your comments cannot be construed as factual as your suggesting. On some plays we might be able to tell whose calling the shots but to suggest that offense moves the ball because Joe is calling the plays is ludicrous.
As for chasing the bengals, really? Do you sincerely believe that? Come on.