Up until medieval times, the five points of the pentagram represented the five wounds of Christ on the Cross. It was a symbol of Christ the Saviour. This is in stark contrast to today where the pentagram is criticized by modern Fundamentalist Christians, as being a symbol of evil.
The church eventually chose the cross as a more significant symbol for Christianity, and the use of the pentagram as a Christian symbol gradually ceased.
I'm not saying that Mormanism doesn't have it's flaws...the initial "founding" of the religion itself by the originial founder just reeks of a complete con for the guy to make money...you know...because he was a convicted con-artist who was jailed for being a con-man back in the day. Personally I'm not trying to be disrespectful because people can believe whatever it is that they want, but I look at Mormanism almost the same way that I look at the Church of Scientology or 7th Day Adventists, etc.
Even still, every religion can have it's roots traced back to paganism. Most "religious" folks don't want to admit that or acknowledge that though.
To get back to Romney being a Morman - I've got no problem with it, but I think a lot of the ultra-religious conservatives would have a problem with it. As it stands, only 1 President who was not of a Protestant lineage of some sort was ever elected and that was Kennedy, who was Catholic.
This whole notion was something that the original Framers wanted to avoid. You shouldn't vote for someone because of their religious convictions or spirituality. That's THEIR business, not anyone elses and it certainly doesn't make someone a better person or a better leader. Some of the most devout people are horrifically corrupt and in a sense evil in a lot of ways (Fred Phelps comes to mind). The Presidential candidate should be elected because of their leadership qualities, ability to be flexible and work with those who have fundamental differences, and should make decisions based on the good of the AMERICAN PEOPLE and not let religion or emotion cloud their judgement.
The fact that religion has even become the mainstay in political campaigning the way it has is disgusting to me.
Holy cow, did Galen actually say the economy was starting to "hum" now? Seriously? His version of hum and most of America's are very much different.
Sorry NC but you are in denial. Those are strong satanic symbols. Here are many of their
symbols. That Sun God in their temple was a Baal God. The verses by the signs in the link
The Morrill Act was one of the first acts passed vs polygamy and because Mormons largely
practiced it. Smith preached it as early as the 1830 and had as many as 30-48 wives by
some counts. It expanded even greater under Young. Other polygamy acts were enacted later on. Buchanan sent the Army and Mormons feared they were sent to destroy them and built
I've given exact facts and references page numbers which you didn't respond to on what I've said while you're in denial.
Oh yea, even Mitt has ties to polygamy. He used to joke about it before he ran for office
but condemned on 60 Mins in the last campaign. His wife said other candidates like
Guiliani hasve been married twice while Mitt has only 1 wife.
His relatives going back to his great great grand father had as many as 12 wives.
For example, the inverted cross is actually a representation of St. Peter's martyrdom on a crucifix when he demanded to be crucified upside down because he didn't feel he was worthy enough to die the same way that Christ had died.
The whole "inverted cross = satan" idea is actually more of a modern spin on something that is the opposite of Christ or mocking Christ or something along those lines, but in reality it was a symbol of humility and unworthiness from St. Peter.
This is a piece from St. Peter's Cathedral.
Here is a stained glass piece on Trinity Church displaying St. Peter's seal of the upside down cross.
The Star of David is actually an old Pagan symbol defining the unity of a Man and Woman and the circle around it defines nature & the "circle of life" if you will. This was before it was the Seal of Solomon and the Star of David.
The Swastika or crooked cross predates Christianity and Mormanism by 1000's of years.
Finally, just one more example, is the so called "Cross of Confusion". The urban legend is that Romans questioned the validity of Christ so they created a symbol of a cross with an upside down question mark on it. It actually had nothing to do with that. If you look at it, it's a representation of a scythe and the symbol became a representation of Kronos or Saturn, who was the God of Aggriculture.
The idea that Paganism is an "occult" is inaccurate at best anyway. Time didn't "start" when Christianity did. Before the Bible was written and before anyone had thought of or founded Christianity there were millions of people who would use "Gods" or some for of deity to explain things in which they were incapable of explaining. It is and was just as credible of a religion as anything in modern times and IMO saying that they were not a religion and were an occult is horrifically biased and irresponsible.
Trap, we are just going to go around in circles so I am calling it quits on this one. Believe what you want about Mormons or any other religion.
I grew up around a bunch of Mormons and lived in Utah for a ski-season (November to April) and I can tell you they are some of the nicest most thoughtful people I've ever come across. The fact Romney is a Mormon has nothing to do with why I would vote for him. I does make me think though about how people say he has no convictions, this man has been a member of church where you can't drink, smoke, gamble cuss etc. for almost his whole life. I get the flip flopping criticism and it's one of mine about him, but that is a fault of all politicians, not saying it's acceptable to me because they all share that just he's no different
NC - It's not what I believe, it's what the Mormons believe as I have proven time and
time again. You can believe what you want and leave it at that. Again, I've used
page numbers from their doctrines and references from the BOM on what they
believe. I have shown they practiced polygamy and it was even in Romney's
I don't know what else to do. You are not going to believe even when I use
page numbers with direct quotes from their BOM and doctrines and direct
quotes from their discourses written by their officials from their founder on down.
Here's a detailed link showing over 3900 changes to the BOM. It was such an
embarrassment especially on spellings and other points like that it had to be changed.
And a question for Mormons is this:
If the original 1830 Book of Mormon was inspired than why were there so many errors and changes and additions and deletions, when compared to current editions?
You said the BOM was not a supplement and I proved that it is with direct
quotes from Young and LDS officials after them saying the Bible is in error. I studied
with them and said they don't believe in Christ the way we do.
And I havent even scratched the surface. Solo brought up the seering scam and how Smith was a con man. I said he was tried and convicted and you can still get the original transcripts from the court house in NY. I didn't even begin to
touch the surface on the magical seers and how his so called Revelations came from them.
And I didn't even get into baptism by proxy which means Mormons baptize the dead.
One Mormon was baptized 1M times to cover all his ancestors but the cult drew the line
when someone tried to Baptize Hitler. True.
I also didn't get into the golden plates the angel was supposed to have taken to heaven.
Only Smith and a few relatives ever saw these plates.
Christ was alive when he was Baptized and so was John the Baptist and all of us. The
Bible doesn't say this so it must be in their supplement. Nevertheless, they say it's
I first learned about Mormons and their polygamy and battle vs the US Army in my high school History course from my teacher, same with the polygamy but you would argue with him. That teacher called Joseph Smith the town drunk.
Books have been written like Kingdom of the Cults showing that it is a cult
but deny it if you want.
Solo - with all due respect, why don't you do what I did and get together
with people that worship in the way you're arguing that. I studied with the
Mormons for 6 months and read the books they gave me along with other
Yes, some of the practices of the church like the preisthood (brotherhood) ane even the
rosary actually come from old Babylonian pagan practices. The old church just continued some of that as the pagans were converted but they didn't worship their Gods. Christmas and
Easter are two of these holidays but they don't mean what they meant back in those days.
The church was very primitive.
So was Israel. The Star of David was originally associated with magic but Jews have always
been attracted to it and Solomon incorporated it into his seal and then the entire country
adopted it as a national symbol and it waves in Israel's flag today. I read that Jews found
an artifact like it wandering around, picked it up and started using it. Here's its history.
So do what I did with the Mormons and try to infiltrate the Satanic Church
and you will see symbols and what they mean and how they use
them like the inverted Star.
NC should go to a Mormon meaning to see what they really believe. Oh, he
can't because he needs a photo ID to get into a Mormon temple. Instead, he
can come to my church with me. No IDs are required and Pastor Craig
will lead him to the Lord.
You have no idea what I know, who I've talked to about Mormonism, if I've ever been to a church etc.
Still in self denial. Again, I took info directly from the sources they use. An operation by the US Army vs the Mormons is in all the history books. It's spelled out in detail above. Another board member brought up the seering scam and my history professor called Smith the town drunk. It was reasons like these and their beliefs and polygamy which Smith preached and
practiced as early as 1830 as to why they were run out of NY.
All you can say is I'm so far off.
Like Galen - you'll never change your mind and I'm not trying to, just letting the
rest of the forum know what they believe in and why millions of Christians won't vote for Romney because he's a member of a cult who said the Bible is in error and can't be depended
on as the sole guide. My info was complete with links and references spelling out the truth.
And those Christians will keep the GOP from winning another election.
Does that make them less of a Christian? Some early Christians believed in sacrifice, does that make them less of a Christian? My point is peoples views change...
You are off by saying Mormons are "Satan worshipers" why because they have suns and stars on their temple? Why do they celebrate Easter? Why do they celebrate Christmas?
You also said they "don't use the cross because they don't believe in death" which I proved was not true.
You also said they don't believe in Jesus like "we do" I don't know what this we shit is all about, you got a turd in your pocket or something? Fact is Mormons believe in Jesus almost exactly like "we do" http://mormon.org/faq/belief-in-jesus-christ/
You're also off because you don't know the difference between a cult and a religion. You think anyone who doesn't believe in Jesus like you do is a cult.
Cult ‘“ a new religious movement that has a limited number of followers and whose practices may or may not be mysterious and possible unsavory.
And as I said Trap, they believe in the Bible they use the Kings James Bible like I am sure you do. They just believe in they just believe the "BOM" says what happened in the rest of the world the bible does not talk about.
And the"truth"? According to whom your Pastor Bob?
Your views on Mormonism as some kinda of cult or satan worshipers remind me of the Mom from Stephen Kings movie "Carrie". What's funny is how you mock their beliefs when you have some strange ones of your own, don't you believe the Earth was created before the universe?
Tell me Trap, as a Christian and a follower of Jesus wouldn't he frown upon on you judging of others? Isn't that up to him and God?
One thing I want to know Trap, Baptist or Southern Baptist?
All you can say is I'm so far off.
Yes, I can say that because you are arguing from the standpoint that your views are 100% correct and superior to anyone who doesn't share them.
You just admitted on being wrong on polygammy. I also proved you wrong on the BOM quoting Smith as saying the Bible was full of errors and couldn't be trusted as a sole guide. Until Mormans accept God's word as the only word they will not be saved. I also showed where the BOM was changed over 3900 times because of errors in it.
I said I might not vote for Romney because of his politics. I still might vote for him.
I will vote for him if he's close enough to beat OBY. I said I don't believe anything he says
because he's lied so much which coincides with the founder of his cult lying to 13M Mormons
world wide that he is a prophet and Messiah but not voting for him has nothing to do with
And the"truth"? According to whom your Pastor Bob?
Man, you're really twisting things around. I said Pastor Craig. I've only been going to his
church for a short time so I don't know what he's said about it. We disagree on
dispensation so we'll probably disagree on this too.
I grew up in an independent non-denominational church. My brother is Reformed Presbyterian
minister or was.
No Southern Baptists for me and when my parent's had a friend for dinner who was one I
grilled him and he even admitted how bad and far off they went in the 60s and 70s
with ecumenicalism and the world council of churches but thought they had improved by the 90s. I disagreed.
I did go to a Southern Baptist Church once or twice when I lived in Atlanta. In Bmore they have nothing but Catholic churches but there they have nothing but southern baptist churches.
I went once or twice and the pastor tried to get me to join. I said how can you get me
to join when you know nothing about me and I know nothing about you. I visited my last church for 6 years before I joined. He just turned around and walked away. A lot of those
churches had 2-3,000 people in the morning and absolutely none in the evening. Our church
was packed in the morning and evening. I always thought Southern Baptists were shallow.
What's funny is how you mock their beliefs when you have some strange ones of your own, don't you believe the Earth was created before the universe?
I did laugh when the Mormon Doctrine says on p.20 the Garden of Eden was in
Jackson county, Missouri. That was funny. The other points were on their erroneous
beliefs tha the Bible has erors and cannot stand up by itself when their BOM has been
changed 3900 times because of errors with spelling mistakes that was
down right embarrassing. That was funny. So was Smith's seering scam when he duped
NY farmers and was run out of town. You said he was run out of town strictly for his
beliefs. It was more than that.
As far as any superiority, I've been studying this my entire adult life so I know I'm right.
I made some minor mistakes but like I keep saying, I used sources directly from their
discourses, doctrines and BOM.
You're really reaching to bring up a point from another thread but I went according
to what the Bible says that half the civilized world believes in but you don't and you didn't
mind Spammy the Athiest calling the Bible hog wash on that creation thread.
But then this wasn't new, when Catholic immigrants arrived in the USA many felt they would be taking orders from Rome and so were treated with suspicion.Quote:
I believe in an America where the separation of church and state is absolute, where no Catholic prelate would tell the president (should he be Catholic) how to act,
Religion is a private business, judge the candidate on their qualities.
Kennedy couldn't have cared less about Catholicism. He and Bobby banged Marilyn Monroe at the same
time plus many others just like their old man who took movie stars from his pal Howard Hughes. A good Catholic in 1960 wouldn't have done that.
THINGS ARE NOT WHAT THEY SEEM IN CAMELOT. JACKIE KENNEDY
Still got questioned about his religion by the WASP establishment though