The War on Terror - What Are We Doing Here?
Point of admission:
Immediately after 9/11, I was a staunch anti-terror advocate. Basically agreeing that enemies of the United States should be hunted down at all costs.
Sometime over the last 5 years that view modified to one of still strongly for securing the United States against terror, but also one of beginning to question at what cost (both in human terms, in dollar terms, as well as to our own liberties) and to what end? When do we say we are safer? Or just safe?
Then came last week. 4 people in Boston were murdered (and hundreds injured), and the authorities basically declared martial law on a city of 5 million:
http://jimbovard.com/blog/wp-content..._n-800x706.jpg
By the way, that is a gun, aimed at a US citizen, in his house, who is taking a picture out of his window.
And here is a video of a random, warrentless by-the-way, search of a house in Watertown, MA: http://youtu.be/2LrbsUVSVl8
Ever had those points in a relationship, personal or working, where you look at the person and say, "What are we doing here?" With this picture and this video, I am at that point with regards to my government and the so-called War on Terror.
Yes, what happened in Boston was bad, very bad, I am not trying to minimize it any shape or form. But, unfortunately, it is also not new...there have always been these types of attacks on innocent people in America. Attacks that have killed far, far more victims, by the way.
And yes, security is very important, but at what point does the overall cost of securing society end up destroying that which we are trying to preserve. Our way of life and our rights as outlined in the Constitution...are we really that much safer for the liberties we have given up and those that we will surely be asked to give up in the future?
And the ironic thing, we say, "We will not be initimidated by terrorists." Really?
http://proxy.storify.com/?url=http%3...M5CUAADC_H.jpg
The above is Boston at mid-day on Friday. The result of 2 "rogue" terrorists (as identified by the FBI), one of which was already dead when the city was put on lock-down and this picture taken. Can you imagine the effect of the next, true big attack?
So that is what is happening with the war on terror at home. This is what is happening abroad: http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisf...rorism-victims
How many future terrorists are we now creating that will want to avenge the death of a parent, a child, a relative, a friend, etc? It is worth noting, there are 1.6 billion of "them" compared to 300 million of "us", so the basic math is not in our favor.
I am not sure where I am going with this...this is not a Republican vs. Democratic issue, because the War on Terror started under the former and, if anything, has intensified under the latter...but I just want to ask someone, anyone, WHAT ARE WE DOING HERE? Because I am not sure...not sure at all anymore.
Was wondering if anyone else felt the same.
Re: The War on Terror - What Are We Doing Here?
I'm in the same boat as you. I mean the FBI, SWAT teams etc beat on peoples doors and ordered them out of their houses at gun point. Would I have complied if I were those people, more than likely, but at what point is it going to far?
Re: The War on Terror - What Are We Doing Here?
Oh and this part right here: "I am not sure where I am going with this...this is not a Republican vs. Democratic issue, because the War on Terror started under the former and, if anything, has intensified under the latter...but I just want to ask someone, anyone, WHAT ARE WE DOING HERE? Because I am not sure...not sure at all anymore."
Is where I am with you the most, I don't even know where I am going with my thoughts on this, other than I am very uncomfortable with what happened in Boston.
Re: The War on Terror - What Are We Doing Here?
Alex Jones is a total douche. He is just making money of conspiracy theory's, that's and and that's all. I doubt he believes even a1/4 of what comes out of his mouth.
Re: The War on Terror - What Are We Doing Here?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
HoustonRaven
And I hope this thread wasn't spawned by Alex Jones and his nonsense.
I don't know who he is...this thread was spawned for the reasons I said it was. Namely, I am not sure where we are going with "The War on Terror."
Re: The War on Terror - What Are We Doing Here?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
HoustonRaven
Back on topic ...
I don't have an issue with the picture of the cop pointing the gun at the person in the open window.
When I was a Military Policemen, we had to go through MOUT Training. MOUT stands for Military Operations in Urban Terrain and domestic law enforcement use the same tactics as well. It's a methodical system of clearing a city / urban environment, recognizing that every open window, every casual citizen, every car you pass by, etc can be a target. Keep in mind, in the military and with police "Urban" is anything other than an open field. If it has buildings, it's considered an urban environment, so the suburbs are considered urban.
So if I put myself in the shoes of that particular cop, he's doing exactly what he's taught to do. First, you always turn your body / head with your rifle. You look at everything around you through your rifle scope. The rifle is never in a different direction than your head. Meaning, what you see your rifle also sees. I am sure at some point the person at the other end of his camera came into view and the cop, doing what he's trained to do, "looked" at the guy to assess him / her as a possible target. Again, what the cop sees, the rifle also sees.
I would also not be shocked if the cop kept his rifle on the person with the camera until all the other officers behind him cleared the scene to his front. The cops at that point knew they were dealing with terrorists, one of which may have had formal training. It's trade craft to these terrorists to blend in. It makes perfect sense to assume a target may act like they are simply snapping photo and then can raise up a weapon once the cop feels secure.
I don't question the tactics of this particular officer/soldier, which I take at your word were probably executed properly according to training.
I question the policy by which a decision to invoke martial law was enforced and an entire city was shut down.
The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.
Do you think the person taking the picture felt secure in their person? Or that the people taken out of the house in the video felt secure of their persons or house? I assume that the pertinent legal question is, were these actions "reasonable"? I guess I am of the mind that I don't think they were. Or if the authorities that ordered these actions even considered the rights they were about violate.