$10 million a Year for Kruger

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Originally Posted by s.r.genovese

He was an every down player.

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Not very good at it, other than rushing the passer.

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Originally Posted by The Excellector

Not very good at it, other than rushing the passer.

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Guess we'll have to disagree. There were a few games this season where he was the best defensive player on the field.

And I could turn that around for a guy like Jarret Johnson:

"He's not a very good every down player, other than stopping the run."

Jarret Johnson played a role for the team. They drafted Courtney Upshaw, because he fit the role that they envisioned for that position on the field.

Kruger just got wiped out in run defense, and sometimes by the TE alone.

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Originally Posted by The Excellector

Jarret Johnson played a role for the team. They drafted Courtney Upshaw, because he fit the role that they envisioned for that position on the field.

Kruger just got wiped out in run defense, and sometimes by the TE alone.

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Kruger played a role. He was better at the pass rushing portion than the run stopping portion. JJ was better at the run stopping portion than the pass rushing.

JJ just got wiped out in passing situations, sometimes by a TE alone.

See what I did there?

Neither was a complete player yet Kruger gets crapped on repeatedly. And JJ is remembered as an amazing defender.

The thing with Kruger and Upshaw is they were the PERFECT compliment to one another.

However, you don't pay a compliment 9-10 mil/year. You find another defensive pass rusher. Can someone like Hamilton come in and do the same thing? Maybe not be as good, but he could compliment Upshaw quite well and fill the pass rusher role.

With a guy like Upshaw, we don't need to go get a complete OLB, we need a guy who can get the QB.

Therefore, don't pay Kruger

Johnson wasn't asked to cover in man. He was only asked to cover in zone and he covered his zone.

Don't worry though, you'll barely remember Kruger after the season Upshaw is about to have. 7-10 sacks, on top of being one of the league's best edge setters.

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Originally Posted by LouisianaRaven

Appreciate all Kruger has done for us but we don't overpay situational players. Suggs has become the new Ray. The OLBs opposite of him go to new teams and thrive in mediocrity. Atleast, kinda lol.

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I have to totally agree with this. Lets be real here, Kruger played ok while Suggs was out but it was when he came back that he really started to take off. I am fine with a much much cheaper Upshaw taking Kruger's place and drafting a guy who has some athletic upside to groom as a situational pass rusher. Right now there are other areas (LT, ILB, S, possibly C) that need attention.

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Originally Posted by CharmCityCrab

If we were to decided that we need to retain Kruger, given the money he'll likely be offered, I think our best bet would be to pin him with the non-exclusive franchise tag. That way we can pay him for a year with a total that would likely probably be less than $10m (I'm guessing, I don't know what that tag on an outside linebacker would be this year), and then we can use 2013 to see whether he builds on 2012 or reverts to the mean. What we don't want to do is hand him a 4-5 year contract with a big bonus that averages $10m a year.

So, my guess would be that by the time the franchise tags are all applied or not applied, we'll pretty much know if Kruger is coming back next year, barring the market for him inexplicably collapsing. The non-exclusive franchise tag here is a big advantage for us if want to keep him and are able to pay him anything near market value.

If we don't feel we can, then we won't, and once he hits the open market, a team with tons of cap room will sign him, and it won't necessarily be a bad move for said team. Some of these teams are $30-40m beneath the cap and need to hit at least the payroll floor. So a long-term deal for a guy who is relatively young coming off a big season isn't as big of a risk for them as it is for a team like Baltimore with less cap space. To the Clevelands of the world, they might be $35m under, sign Kruger and be $25m under, and even if he takes a step backwards they at least have a solid outside linebacker and plenty of cap room, it's not financially crippling to them at all, and the upside is that they might have one of the league's premiere pass rushers if Kruger picks up where he left off this past season or gets better.

I mean, it's something like this. If your personal finances are tight, buying even a DVD player or something might be a big deal that you have to look at your budget and weigh against other things. If you're a billionaire, you might go out and buy three Internet connected Blu-Ray players just because without a second thought. Right now, the Ravens' finances are tight. The Browns and other teams have tons of money to play with. There are deals that are not going to make sense for us that'll be excellent deals for them.

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Other teams have tons of money but not half the players the Ravens have to make another strong SB run even w/o Kruger. Bisciotti has always spent close to the ceiling which is why he's about the make the POs for 6th straight year, more than any other owner. Ozzie said JOe is the only player that would get the tag.

I'm not going to beat up Krueger, I think he'll sign for more money that we have. Trying to turn him into a DE didn't work but I understand in the sense that he wasn't getting on the field with Suggs and JJ locking up the OLB positions so they experimented with him. He was a starter at the beginning of the year and wasn't very impressive until Suggs came back. He does possess some nice pass rushing skills and we'll see if he improves or fizzles. I don't think we've scratched the surface of Upshaw's potential and he is the obvious future. Draft or pick up a cheap pass rusher in free agency but don't be surprised if Upshaw becomes more of a presence there.

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Originally Posted by s.r.genovese

Kruger played a role. He was better at the pass rushing portion than the run stopping portion. JJ was better at the run stopping portion than the pass rushing.

JJ just got wiped out in passing situations, sometimes by a TE alone.

See what I did there?

Neither was a complete player yet Kruger gets crapped on repeatedly. And JJ is remembered as an amazing defender.

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The problem with your comparisons is that Johnson wasn't an every down player for at least the last two years he was here. He was a two down player who was subbed for in passing situations, especially in 2011, which is what allowed Kruger and McPhee to be so effective that year. Kruger being a weak run defender when he is an every down player, and thus sees the field on running downs, is a lot different than Johnson being weak against the pass when he was rarely on the field in those situations.

BTW I do not think Kruger is a bad player even if I seem to. He's a good player and I would love to keep him if we could, but he seems to think he's a 15 sack guy and frankly, he's not. He seems to overvalue himself, and will likely be overvalued by other teams as well, much like several other former Ravens defenders.

Not Buffalo. They gave Swan Edwards a ton of money he didn't get elsewhere and Kruger will too and they are interested in him. There's a reason why the Buffalo's of the world remain at the bottom and the Ravens remain on top. Ravens sign the Flacco's and Rice's and let the JJ's and Kruger's walk.

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Originally Posted by s.r.genovese

Kruger played a role. He was better at the pass rushing portion than the run stopping portion. JJ was better at the run stopping portion than the pass rushing.

JJ just got wiped out in passing situations, sometimes by a TE alone.

See what I did there?

Neither was a complete player yet Kruger gets crapped on repeatedly. And JJ is remembered as an amazing defender.

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Even if you accept what you said as true it still does not change the fact that the Ravens were smart to not resign JJ for the money he wanted and they will be smart for not giving Kruger the type of money he is looking for.

"neither was a complete player" those are the key words. Guys like that are great to have around at your price to be used at your discretion. When the price goes to high let someone else pay it.