The Pats' defense was different from the Ravens' D.
The Pats D had Wilfork living in the Ravens backfield all game.
The Ravens D did not have Ngata living in the Pats backfield all game.
The Ravens D produced 3 turnovers.
The Pats D produced only 1.
The Pats D made the game saving pass defense.
The Ravens D never got that chance, thanks to Evans and Cundiff.
Btw, for those who think Flacco didn't outplay Brady:
Comp. Att. Yards TDs INTs
Brady : 22 36 239 0 2 (Brady did have 1 rushing TD)
Flacco : 22 36 306 2 1
What a concept, you mean turnovers help contribute to wins and losses?! Well my STARS! Too bad Flacco isn't the only QB in the game who throws picks and fumbles, otherwise you might not sound like you've recently had a lobotomy.
And y'all think I'm the one that doesn't make consistent arguments...
Again, someone please explain to me what the metric is for a QB outplaying his opponent while losing the game.
Leach, Haloti92, et al.... This is the tripe we're talking about. This is who we are talking about when we say that there are some posters who will literally give credit to everyone but Joe up to and including WILLIS MOTHER FUCKING MCGAHEE ARE YOU SHITTING ME?!?
Jesus... I feel dumber just for having read it.
PS, the Willis Magahee props goes back to that long run with a stiff arm, forgot who agaisnt, but it was a thing a beauty I'll always remember.
That exchange started when you brought up the Ravens record and asked whether Joe deserved "credit" for them. That question can be interpreted many ways. Any credit? Some credit? All credit? etc. I seriously doubt DonMass would argue Joe has not had any good games in those 54 wins where one would give the lion's share of "credit" for the win to Joe. The issue is not about whether Joe has contributed to wins, because every non-winless QB has contributed something to some win. The issue is how much he has contributed to those 54 wins. That is ALWAYS the question. Some people think random, average, NFL QB XYZ would have won 50 games vs 54 had they been here for that time. Some others think 34 vs 54.
No one can "win" the argument, but too often people use fallacies while trying to support their point. One is pretending that a person who argues that others contributed to the wins means the person is arguing that Joe contributed nothing to the wins. The floor is not "nothing," the floor is better described as "nothing special," even if that is also subjective and open to debate.
And I could easily put up examples of my mirror image response if we are going to misconstrue people's arguments. I can find plenty of examples where people appear to argue that Joe's poor statistical performances can be fully explained by: dropped passes, poor protection, terrible OC, etc, without ever listing Joe as responsible in any way (similar to Don's list above). These responses usually come on the heels of someone else claiming Joe deserves blame for a loss (similar to your claim that Joe deserves "credit" for the wins).
In short, I don't think Don is saying what you are implying he is saying when he posts that list/response to your statement.
Wins AND stats.
So, if a QB is lacking in one or the other, then you analyze why.
With Flacco, he has the wins, but his stats have been 'meh'
And the consensus by the majority of Ravens fans and media experts (the experts who actually do know about QBs) is that Flacco's stats have been mediocre because of:
1) Cam Cameron/scheme/play-calling/lack of timely proper adjustments/etc.
2) The O-Line when the starters get hurt (which unfortunately has happened 3 seasons now)
3) Flacco and the receivers both not being consistent enough (basically a tie here)
In that order.
So, the consensus among us "Flacco lovers" has been, get rid of Cam (done...YES!) and add more/better depth to the O-line...because Mark LeVoir, Bryan Mattison, Oneil Freakin' Cousins, and ready-to-retire Andre Gurode & Bobby Williams, ain't going to get the job done--they're not even replacement level backups.
And then we can all finally make a more accurate assessment of both Joe and the receiving corps.
Thank you. Well said.
I like Joe Flacco, however his mistakes have led to measurable consequences.
Winning and losing are team efforts; I never said otherwise. Joe has turned the ball over, especially in momentum changing situations, when all he had to do was nothing other than not make a mistake, Denver on the 4 yard line a perfect example.
For the rest... okay. You well may be correct. We'll probably see starting next year. For the sake of the Ravens, and their chances to keep up winning ways and playoff runs, I sincerely hope that I'm wrong and that you (and the other "lovers") are right.
Joe has 109 TDs, 56 picks, and 18 lost fumbles. Meaning he has 1.45 scores for every turnover.
Matt Ryan has 131 TDs, plus 80 picks, and 11 lost fumbles. 1.43 scores per turnover.
Ben Roethlisberger has 202 TDs, plus 108 picks, and 29 lost fumbles. 1.47 scores per turnover.
If you think Joe is turning the ball over more than other QBs, you're wrong. If you think he's scoring less points per turnover, you're wrong. If you think he's winning fewer games, you're wrong.
Basically everything you've said about Joe has been inaccurate, or grossly exaggerated.