Re: Logical, unheated QB discussion
Everyone one has been frustrated with the O-line play. I still maintain that they aren't nearly as bad as the Ravens Nation has portrayed them. However, they are, without question, the weakest unit on the team.
That being said, it's not really fair to say that the FO has not tried to address the O-line. As much as the line play is critical to success, every front office in professional sports believes you sign your skill players. And you get them first. Most believe that you develop your "grunts" and try to hang on to the good ones. No, the Ravens front office has not spent quarterback money on a guard or center that their own contending teams even let go. But they did try to sign one of the best right tackles in the league in 2001 and got burned badly when he was injured and out for the season.
They chose to rebuild the defense first after the purge. But since then, have drafted Pashos in the 5th, Brown in the 4th, Adam Terry in the 2nd, and Chris Chester in the 2nd. Look around the league, the vast majority of O-lineman are late round picks or UDFA. It would be really stupid to draft an offensive lineman in the middle of the first round. But we've pick OL in the 2nd of our last two drafts.
As to FA lineman, the young ones are almost always overpaid and the old ones are well... old. Had for a bargain but their productivity is limited.
Maybe our FO has done a poor job of evaluating OL talent but I don't think it's fair to say that they have done nothing to try to improve the line. The choices are rather stark and simple. Rolle or a top FA guard? Mason or a 2nd string center that couldn't beat out Mike Flynn? Bentley/Hutchinson or McNair?
Re: Logical, unheated QB discussion
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have drafted Pashos in the 5th, Brown in the 4th, Adam Terry in the 2nd, and Chris Chester in the 2nd. Look around the league, the vast majority of O-lineman are late round picks or UDFA. It would be really stupid to draft an offensive lineman in the middle of the first round. But we've pick OL in the 2nd of our last two drafts.
Good points. We also drafted Jason Brown, and acquired Keydrick Vincent. It's not as if, our FO has been blind to the glaring need at OLine.
Re: Logical, unheated QB discussion
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But since then, have drafted Pashos in the 5th, Brown in the 4th, Adam Terry in the 2nd, and Chris Chester in the 2nd. Look around the league, the vast majority of O-lineman are late round picks or UDFA. It would be really stupid to draft an offensive lineman in the middle of the first round. But we've pick OL in the 2nd of our last two drafts.
That was my take on the situation 3-4 months ago. It has changed since then.
My problem lies in the fact that these guys aren't even seeing the field.
They may be young and inexperienced but are they NOT good enough to replace the likes of Keydrick Vincent and Mike Flynn? And if they are CLEARLY NOT good enough to replace these guys, then why don't we dip into free agency?
My problem is that Vincent and Flynn played HORRIBLY last season, yet they are STILL STARTING! Yes, we've *partly* adressed the need for OL in the draft, but it seems the guys we're drafting are projects and not ready to contribute. It seems that we need an immediate impact on the OL, yet it is continuing to be ignored.
Pashos is unproven and doesn't have a veteran backup. Apparently Terry can't play RT and needs MORE time. Chester didn't even start a full season in college at O-line and brown apparently cannot make the line calls. My question is WHY the hell can't a 2nd year 2nd round OT crack the starting lineup on our shitty line? Why can't a 2nd year first team AA and iron man in Jason Brown knock off Keydrick Vincent and Mike Flynn? Huh?
I'll say it again: if they REALLY and LEGITIMATELY are NOT good enough to start, then why are we keeping one of the worst OL's in the NFL together?
I'll be glad to eat my words on this one. The rest of our team is stacked, but the OL is a worry of mine.
Re: Logical, unheated QB discussion
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Originally Posted by LBoogy
That was my take on the situation 3-4 months ago. It has changed since then.
My problem lies in the fact that these guys aren't even seeing the field.
They may be young and inexperienced but are they NOT good enough to replace the likes of Keydrick Vincent and Mike Flynn? And if they are CLEARLY NOT good enough to replace these guys, then why don't we dip into free agency?
My problem is that Vincent and Flynn played HORRIBLY last season, yet they are STILL STARTING! Yes, we've *partly* adressed the need for OL in the draft, but it seems the guys we're drafting are projects and not ready to contribute. It seems that we need an immediate impact on the OL, yet it is continuing to be ignored.
Pashos is unproven and doesn't have a veteran backup. Apparently Terry can't play RT and needs MORE time. Chester didn't even start a full season in college at O-line and brown apparently cannot make the line calls. My question is WHY the hell can't a 2nd year 2nd round OT crack the starting lineup on our shitty line? Why can't a 2nd year first team AA and iron man in Jason Brown knock off Keydrick Vincent and Mike Flynn? Huh?
I'll say it again: if they REALLY and LEGITIMATELY are NOT good enough to start, then why are we keeping one of the worst OL's in the NFL together?
I'll be glad to eat my words on this one. The rest of our team is stacked, but the OL is a worry of mine.
Everything you said is irrefutable. The F.O. and coaching staff needs some thought redirection. THE 'OLINE IS IMPORTANT.
Re: Logical, unheated QB discussion
I think we all agree that McNair at this point is a better QB than Boller. My only concern here is how much he (McNair) will be able to play this year.
I think Boller has improved a lot (admitedly, he started pretty rough). He did great during the Viking and Packer games last year (the Browns game was a disaster for all concerned), and has looked good this preseason. Not only has he gotten more experienced (= more comfortable), but he got better weapons now. (To whom was he throwing at first, Kevin Johnson and Travis Taylor?)
it is an NFL truism that 'any quarterback can pick you apart, if he has time'. at this point, do we think Boller can put up 300 yards on most Sundays, given good protection? I say yes. If/When McNair goes down (how long has it been since he's played all 16 games? how many QBs do any more?), I think Kyle can do ok...
...given time!!!
Re: Logical, unheated QB discussion
Edited: Not even worth the time anymore.
Re: Logical, unheated QB discussion
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Originally Posted by Tex Ritter
I think it has been recently established than virtually any mediocre QB in the NFL can have a career game against the non-existent Green Bay Packers defense which is one of the worst I have ever seen in the NFL over the past twenty years.
That's ridiculous, which makes me think you haven't paid attention to the all Packers games last year, much less all NFL games the past twenty years, but I'll play along since there are no games tonight.
Did you see the Vikings game last year? Or is the Green Bay game your only point of reference?
Re: Logical, unheated QB discussion
Highwater, you are wasting your time. I think Old19fan got a new handle.
Re: Logical, unheated QB discussion
Boller-trashing - the pastime that wouldn't die.
Requiem en pace, huh?
Re: Logical, unheated QB discussion
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Originally Posted by StingerNLG
Highwater, you are wasting your time. I think Old19fan got a new handle.
He might not be as redundant as oldfan, but he does appears to have the IQ of a root vegetable. You're right, I'm wasting my time trying to talk sensibly with "Tex" :laugh: