Premature Discussion of Flacco's Mounting Hall of Fame Credentials
First, a caveat: He's obviously not a lock at this moment in his career. In order for any of this to be relevant, he has to continue these trends for at least another 5 seasons, and preferably 10+ more seasons.
However... it is interesting to note:
The only quarterbacks to have as many or more playoff wins as Flacco, and as good or better of a passer rating in those wins, are:
Joe Montana - 16 Wins - 105.4 QB Rating
Brett Favre - 13 Wins - 107.3 QB Rating
Troy Aikman - 11 Wins - 109.2 QB Rating
Kurt Warner - 9 Wins - 110.0 QB Rating
Peyton Manning - 9 Wins - 104.3 QB Rating
Bart Starr - 8 Wins - 108.6 QB Rating
Steve Young - 8 Wins - 105.0 QB Rating
Eli Manning - 8 Wins - 100.1 QB Rating
Dan Marino - 8 Wins - 99.6 QB Rating
And then there's our boy:
Joe Flacco - 8 Wins - 98.7 QB Rating
First, a note on Bart Starr: His actually has credit for 9 wins, but I was being fair to everybody else and taking away his 1965 game against the Baltimore Colts where he was injured out of the game on the very first play. Frankly, he shouldn't get credit for that win.
Now, One thing I notice about that company is that all of them are either in the Hall of Fame (Montana, Young, Aikman, Starr, Marino), or absolute Hall of Fame locks (Favre, Warner, P. Manning, E. Manning), with the exception of Joe Flacco and Eli Manning.
Eli Manning has made a pretty good case for himself to get in some day, as well. Could Flacco be on pace to make a similar case?
By the way, the other QBs with as many or more play-off wins as Flacco (but with a lower QB Rating in those wins) are:
Tom Brady - 17 Wins - 93.8 QB Rating
John Elway - 14 Wins - 88.0 QB Rating
Terry Bradshaw - 14 Wins - 96.0 QB Rating
Roger Staubach - 12 Wins - 92.8 QB Rating
Ben Roethlisberger - 10 Wins - 88.2 QB Rating
Donovan McNabb - 9 Wins - 92.3 QB Rating
Jim Kelly - 9 Wins - 85.9 QB Rating
Jim Plunkett - 8 Wins - 88.6 QB Rating
First, a note on Staubach: he actually only has credit for 11 wins, but I'm being fair to him and including his stats and the win from the 1972 Divisional game against San Francisco, which he didn't start, but he came off the bench with 2 minutes left, down by 12, and won the game.
Now, Once again, that's some pretty grand company. You've got your Hall of Famers (Elway, Bradshaw, Staubach, Kelly), and your absolute Hall of Fame lock (Brady). Then of course you've got Roethlisberger, who may get in some day, and Donovan McNabb, who at one point in his career looked like a shoe-in, but after a drawn-out fade-out to end his career, may not be in the conversation anymore. Jim Plunkett is still in the conversation, and may still get in some day. If he doesn't, it's because he never had long-term success and wasn't good in the regular season. Obviously, there's also the matter that these three guys haven't been as instrumental to the win in their post-season victories as Flacco has been, as evidenced by their lower passer ratings in those games.
So accounting for all 17 players in NFL history with as much or more post-season success as Flacco, all but 4 are Hall of Fame guarantees. That's fantastic company, especially considering that 2 of those remaining 4 also have a good chance to go in some day, and the other 2 are on the fringes of the conversation, and 3 of the 4 who aren't locks were not as instrumental to their post-season successes for their teams as Flacco has been for the Ravens.
I guess what I'm trying to say is... Flacco has been building himself a nice little career here, that at its current trajectory, if we are fortunate enough for him to continue it, looks set for a ride all the way into Canton.
Re: Premature Discussion of Flacco's Mounting Hall of Fame Credentials
I'll bite on this just because....
No. His current trajectory is not going towards Canton.
He needs to win a Superbowl, Then a second and maybe a third.
Throwing for over 4000 yards with 28-30 TD's and less than 10 interceptions every year for the next 8 years would probably help.
A season where he was NFL MVP or offensive player of the year would help.
Making a pro bowl would be good. I realize it is just a popularity contest sometimes, but if people don't think you are one of the top 2 or 3 QB's in your conference multiple times in your career while you are playing, it is hard to convince people 5 years after you retire that you were one of the best of your generation.
Playoff success is nice but for Canton, you need more and Joe does not have it..... yet. I love Joe and am happy he is my QB, but even with his success, his next 5 years need to be a LOT better than his last 5 before anybody could even start considering Canton. Nothing would make me happier if his carreer started to get closer towards a Canton trajectory, but right now, no.
Re: Premature Discussion of Flacco's Mounting Hall of Fame Credentials
Jim Plunkett isn't a HOF QB just because he won 2 Super Bowls.
I love Flacco as a player but stats do matter in HOF discussions. A QB isn't a pitcher; wins aren't all that important in the eyes of the selection committee.
At his current trajectory, no he is not a HOF player. Even if he maintains his current production and wins 2 Super Bowls, he still isn't a HOF QB. At his current trajectory, he'd prob end up with 1 Pro Bowl selection if he's lucky. Now, I know the Pro Bowl is generally a bunch of BS but the selection committee definitely takes Pro Bowls into account when picking HOFers.
However, I do think he has the ability begin to accumulate HOF numbers. Much like Eli started putting up Pro Bowl numbers after his Super Bowl win my hope is that Flacco jumps to the next level and starts averaging 4000 yards and 30ish TD's per year. If he can get there and continue that production for a number of years, he'll get some Pro Bowls and he'll be much closer to consideration for the HOF.
Re: Premature Discussion of Flacco's Mounting Hall of Fame Credentials
5 years in the league and Joe has 5 playoff appearances, 3 AFC championships, and now a Superbowl appearance. If he keeps that up he is a shoe in despite what some people may think...the guy is getting the job done. Is he not?
This is what you expect from a QB that was drafted in the first round, not like some other knuckles heads from years past who cost more than just a 1st rounder. Makes me sad about how many opportunities were lost for Ray.
Re: Premature Discussion of Flacco's Mounting Hall of Fame Credentials
I'll wait for his career to play out more. Love to hear the nay sayers, they have some sort of idea that they can call out what will happen. Five years and Flacco has made some elite QBs careers look pale in comparision to what Flacco has achieved. Time will tell and I for one would hope his career gets him into the HOF. Where are those predictors who said he wasn't going to be a QB to take the Ravens to a SB. Or the guys who said they would never pay top dollar for Flacco? Sit back and enjoy the ride that the Ravens are giving us. The guy who is taking the snaps and leading the offense has done a great job these 5 years. I'll be along for the ride for the rest of his career. Still Wacko for Flacco.
Re: Premature Discussion of Flacco's Mounting Hall of Fame Credentials
Quote:
Originally Posted by
lovefootball
I'll wait for his career to play out more. Love to hear the nay sayers, they have some sort of idea that they can call out what will happen. Five years and Flacco has made some elite QBs careers look pale in comparision to what Flacco has achieved. Time will tell and I for one would hope his career gets him into the HOF. Where are those predictors who said he wasn't going to be a QB to take the Ravens to a SB. Or the guys who said they would never pay top dollar for Flacco? Sit back and enjoy the ride that the Ravens are giving us. The guy who is taking the snaps and leading the offense has done a great job these 5 years. I'll be along for the ride for the rest of his career. Still Wacko for Flacco.
:word Enjoy the fact that we have a legit franchise QB here in Baltimore and will for years to come.
Re: Premature Discussion of Flacco's Mounting Hall of Fame Credentials
Mr. Linta? Is that you? :)
Re: Premature Discussion of Flacco's Mounting Hall of Fame Credentials
Quote:
Originally Posted by
callahan09
So you guys are saying that even at his current trajectory he wouldn't be a hall of famer? If he wins the Super Bowl this year than identical production over another five years would get him 2 rings, 18 post season wins (most all time by today's leaderboard), and 12 road wins in the playoffs (with nobody else having more than 5). I'm just saying, the pace at which he wins games is unprecedented and if it continued he is a lock. Bulk numbers don't make a winner. Anybody who watches Flacco play should be able to acknowledge his leadership, his level headedness, his playmaking that contributes to so many team wins.
Wins are nice but no HOF selection committee are going to vote him in on wins and intangibles alone. 2 Super Bowls help but he needs the stats to back it up. Like I said before, Jim Plunkett has two rings and is not a HOF QB. I think Flacco can do it but he needs to increase his production to do so.
Re: Premature Discussion of Flacco's Mounting Hall of Fame Credentials
I used to think Todd Heap and Chris McAllister were both potential Hall of Famers, too.
Things happen. We'll see. I hope you're right, Mr. Linta.
Re: Premature Discussion of Flacco's Mounting Hall of Fame Credentials
Quote:
Originally Posted by
callahan09
So you guys are saying that even at his current trajectory he wouldn't be a hall of famer? If he wins the Super Bowl this year than identical production over another five years would get him 2 rings, 18 post season wins (most all time by today's leaderboard), and 12 road wins in the playoffs (with nobody else having more than 5). I'm just saying, the pace at which he wins games is unprecedented and if it continued he is a lock. Bulk numbers don't make a winner. Anybody who watches Flacco play should be able to acknowledge his leadership, his level headedness, his playmaking that contributes to so many team wins.
Since it's completely hypothetical, I would think if he has the exact same success in the next 5 years as he's had in the past, I would think that would be a HOF resume, assuming he wins one of the two SB's.
Re: Premature Discussion of Flacco's Mounting Hall of Fame Credentials
Quote:
Originally Posted by
s.r.genovese
Wins are nice but no HOF selection committee are going to vote him in on wins and intangibles alone. 2 Super Bowls help but he needs the stats to back it up. Like I said before, Jim Plunkett has two rings and is not a HOF QB. I think Flacco can do it but he needs to increase his production to do so.
Troy Aikman is a HOFer based more on wins and team success then individual numbers.
Lets take a ganer at them.
Almost 33k yards at 61.5 completion pct.
1.17:1 TD:INT ration with 165 Total TD's
81.6 career Qb rating
3 SB's, 6 PB's and 3 All-Pro's.
in 12 years
exactly 1 season with over 20 TD's, ZERO seasons above 3500 yards.
career average game... 200 yards, 1 TD, .85 picks...
carre QB rating 86.3
hopefully about to get his first SB, 0 probowls, much less all-pro seasons
in 5 years
4 straight seasons with over 20 TD's, 3 straight over 3500 yards
career average game...220 yards, 1.28 TD's .7 picks
SO, as can be seen, he msut keep up his team success, perhaps even increase it, while his personal stats are far better, yet his personal ACCOLADES trail dramatically, much relating to the popularity of AMerica's team.
Currently, Flacco has MORE than 17000 yards at 60.5 pct
1.82:1 TD:INT ratio with 102 total TD passes
