Cams protection packages in the second half got him fired according to Preston and Harbaugh.

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Originally Posted by Boulderraven

Empty backfeild on 3rd and 5 at the 13 with 5 blockers, stupid! Caused Flacco to hurry throw that caused INT. When I saw that play design I knew it was destined to fail. When you have your RB split FAR Right and no blockers of course they will blitz, 6 rushers to 5 blockers, will force a hurried throw or sack. I cant beleive a NFL OC would call that formation.

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Perhaps having 5 blockers works in practice with Pees rushing 3 guys all the time.

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Originally Posted by Boulderraven

Yes, but usually with a larger field, not in redzone. It is too easy to jump the route and get a pick six and the safeties and cb's are closer because of the EZ. I coached Db's at Colorado State and University of Colorado for almost 10 years til Barnett stuck his foot in his mouth.

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Ok, I can accept that argument (even if I suspect some proficient passing offenses do in fact line up that close to the endzone in 5 wide).

But you weren't really including that conditional every time you criticized the formation, such as here:

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Originally Posted by Boulderraven

I cant beleive a NFL OC would call that formation.

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and here:

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Originally Posted by Boulderraven

That is a formation you never see, not in college or any level.

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As long as you are just questioning the formation in that particular circumstance, then I won't object. :D

I actually don't mind a spread empty backfield, why the play didn't work was that the routes were way too deep and took too long to develop. If there was a reciever or two running out where the blitz was coming from that formation would have been money. Mike Shanahan ran alot of this with cutler in denver when they overloaded cutler would change the hot route and hit the reiciever on the side of the blitz. The formation works is the route trees that are issues in cams system.

Haloti, you never see that call at that spot on the feild with that down and distance. You at worst want your 3 points. Sometimes you will see a Qb bootleg out of that formation, but Joe is not bootlegger. A better formation in that situation is 1 back and TE on one side of the line, usually the long side of the feild or audible him over to the overload blitz if one is presented to you. That way you have TWO safety valves and force defenses LB's to stay honest or rush passer. This what NE runs near goal line everytime. Make defender choose course of action and react accordingly.

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Originally Posted by Jsmoove

I actually don't mind a spread empty backfield, why the play didn't work was that the routes were way too deep and took too long to develop. If there was a reciever or two running out where the blitz was coming from that formation would have been money. Mike Shanahan ran alot of this with cutler in denver when they overloaded cutler would change the hot route and hit the reiciever on the side of the blitz. The formation works is the route trees that are issues in cams system.

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I live in Denver/Boulder and know their system, the big difference is that Cutler/Plummer would do a boot out of this and scramble wide side with pass/run option. The threat of the boot also scared teams. Joe isnt a bootleg QB. That's why Shanahan gave up the farm for RG3. He likes the boot, he did it with Elway alot as well, buys time and gives QB options and slides the LB's and S's.

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Originally Posted by Boulderraven

Haloti, you never see that call at that spot on the feild with that down and distance. You at worst want your 3 points. Sometimes you will see a Qb bootleg out of that formation, but Joe is not bootlegger. A better formation in that situation is 1 back and TE on one side of the line, usually the long side of the feild or audible him over to the overload blitz if one is presented to you. That way you have TWO safety valves and force defenses LB's to stay honest or rush passer. This what NE runs near goal line everytime. Make defender choose course of action and react accordingly.

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I am not quibbling with your overall criticism, I think I am just quibbling about your continual use of the word "never" in lieu of "rarely." :D

The fact is, you can line up like that and survive a blitz as long as you are prepared, i.e. ready to throw a quick slant or even a fade to the receiver left open by the blitzer or left in single coverage. It was a combination of that formation and our inability to deal with the blitz that came that doomed the play, not simply the former. A lot of teams when they line up like that HOPE you blitz.

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Originally Posted by Boulderraven

I live in Denver/Boulder and know their system, the big difference is that Cutler/Plummer would do a boot out of this and scramble wide side with pass/run option. The threat of the boot also scared teams. Joe isnt a bootleg QB. That's why Shanahan gave up the farm for RG3. He likes the boot, he did it with Elway alot as well, buys time and gives QB options and slides the LB's and S's.

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exactly he would zone his line and move cutler\plummer around to buy that time for that route to develop and there weren't deep shots, it was 5yrds there 7 yards here but it moved the chains constantly. It was a very good offense.

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Originally Posted by Haloti92

I am not quibbling with your overall criticism, I think I am just quibbling about your continual use of the word "never" in lieu of "rarely." :D

The fact is, you can line up like that and survive a blitz as long as you are prepared, i.e. ready to throw a quick slant or even a fade to the receiver left open by the blitzer or left in single coverage. It was a combination of that formation and our inability to deal with the blitz that came that doomed the play, not simply the former. A lot of teams when they line up like that HOPE you blitz.

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Rarely it is, but you need a mobile QB and hope the defense doesnt read and jump the route and gets a pick. It's pretty uncommon extremely rare to see. When do you ever see the Ravens use a hot route? Cam never liked them. I can see why at times, they can become easy interceptions if the defense picks up on it with Safety help over the top.

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Originally Posted by Jsmoove

exactly he would zone his line and move cutler\plummer around to buy that time for that route to develop and there weren't deep shots, it was 5yrds there 7 yards here but it moved the chains constantly. It was a very good offense.

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yep, but he would also take his shots too. They threw long more than people thought. He would take what was given, but would always force the defense to either come up and go deep or stay back and throw short crossing throws or have the Qb keep it.

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Originally Posted by Boulderraven

I think Joe is just fed up and in no man's land.

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I ain't buying that. Joe has stated publically that he thinks he's an elite QB. I have never seen Brady, either Manning, Brees, or even Charlie Batch for that matter, run a play with that kind of a blocking mismatch in front of them. Elite QB's call time out, run the ball themselves, or just throw the ball out of bounds. Then they go to the sideline and have a heart-tp-heart with their OC. The play call was on Cam, the pick was due to a bad decision on Joe's part.

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Originally Posted by lowrider

I ain't buying that. Joe has stated publically that he thinks he's an elite QB. I have never seen Brady, either Manning, Brees, or even Charlie Batch for that matter, run a play with that kind of a blocking mismatch in front of them. Elite QB's call time out, run the ball themselves, or just throw the ball out of bounds. Then they go to the sideline and have a heart-tp-heart with their OC. The play call was on Cam, the pick was due to a bad decision on Joe's part.

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Joe isnt that kind of FU kind of guy like a Manning, Elway, Unitas, Roethlisberger,Brady or Warner. He's not Alpha.

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Originally Posted by Haloti92

Plenty of NFL teams go 5 wide plenty of times.

I have no problem questioning the formation at that point of the game, or whether we/Joe can handle it, or the purpose of spreading Rice so wide, etc, but to pretend that 5 wide is something that never happens in the NFL is nonsense.

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Off the top of my head i remember them running the same formation in week one against the steelers last year. They were in the RZ and the result was a Rice TD. Im not defending Cameeon, just pointing out that they have had success with it before.