Re: LOL - POLLS have libbies on suicide watch
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Sirdowski
It's what happens when you don't read. Worse still, when you do read, all you read is dogma related to propagating an agenda, ignoring evidence.
I highly recommend, and challenge any liberal to read the book, "losing ground, American social policy from 1950-1980, by Charles Murray.
Aided by historical fact and information from the library of Congress, it explains why government social programs do not and will never work.
Perfectly summed up by a Founding Father
Quote:
I am for doing good to the poor, but I differ in opinion of the means. I think the best way of doing good to the poor, is not making them easy in poverty, but leading or driving them out of it. In my youth I traveled much, and I observed in different countries, that the more public provisions were made for the poor, the less they provided for themselves, and of course became poorer. And, on the contrary, the less was done for them, the more they did for themselves, and became richer.
There is no country in the world where so many provisions are established for them; so many hospitals to receive them when they are sick or lame, founded and maintained by voluntary charities; so many alms-houses for the aged of both sexes, together with a solemn general law made by the rich to subject their estates to a heavy tax for the support of the poor.
Under all these obligations, are our poor modest, humble, and thankful; and do they use their best endeavours to maintain themselves, and lighten our shoulders of this burthen? — On the contrary, I affirm that there is no country in the world in which the poor are more idle, dissolute, drunken, and insolent.
The day you passed that act, you took away from before their eyes the greatest of all inducements to industry, frugality, and sobriety, by giving them a dependance on somewhat else than a careful accumulation during youth and health, for support in age or sickness.
In short, you offered a premium for the encouragement of idleness, and you should not now wonder that it has had its effect in the increase of poverty.
Benjamin Franklin
Re: LOL - POLLS have libbies on suicide watch
Quote:
Originally Posted by
NCRAVEN
Perfectly summed up by a Founding Father
always admired Ben Franklin, the beer guzzling, whore banging, father of our country. One of the smartest men this country had.
there in lies the dilemma, Making it easy in poverty vs having a safety net. As great as a country as we are i cant imagine not having a saftety net for when times are hard but in doing so youre going to have people abuse the system outside what its intended. No safety net means entire towns could look like 3rd world countries and/or ghost towns (detroit comes to mind). In my opinion, its not so much that the programs arent needed or lead to complacency, but that we need to be stricter and penalize those that do abuse it. Same goes for the top 1-2% as well that move their money around and avoid paying taxes or pay less than middle classers do. Theres abusers on both ends, which seems to be all we talk about, while the middle class is what really runs this country. When times are good, this seems to be a lesser issue for the most part. People that want to work typically can find it, and those that dont stick out like sore thumbs.
In other news im glad some states are finally passing laws for drug testing to receive welfare. Thats at least a step in the right direction.
Re: LOL - POLLS have libbies on suicide watch
Quote:
Originally Posted by
JAB1985
always admired Ben Franklin, the beer guzzling, whore banging, father of our country. One of the smartest men this country had.
:thumbup:
Quote:
Originally Posted by
JAB1985
there in lies the dilemma, Making it easy in poverty vs having a safety net. As great as a country as we are i cant imagine not having a saftety net for when times are hard but in doing so youre going to have people abuse the system outside what its intended. No safety net means entire towns could look like 3rd world countries and/or ghost towns (detroit comes to mind).
Detroit is a perfect example of the abuse of those in power promising a safety net that has then turned into a program that almost discourages people from work.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
JAB1985
In my opinion, its not so much that the programs arent needed or lead to complacency, but that we need to be stricter and penalize those that do abuse it. Same goes for the top 1-2% as well that move their money around and avoid paying taxes or pay less than middle classers do. Theres abusers on both ends, which seems to be all we talk about, while the middle class is what really runs this country. When times are good, this seems to be a lesser issue for the most part. People that want to work typically can find it, and those that dont stick out like sore thumbs.
You ever see the movie "Cinderella Man"? Down on his luck and no money, a boxer with broken hand could barely find work. When the lights and heat in his house got turned off in the dead of winter, his wife shipped off the kids to live with her sister. Russell Crowe's character FINALLY went into the welfare office and got money to turn the lights back on.
That's what a safety net should be, it should not be a way of life.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
JAB1985
In other news im glad some states are finally passing laws for drug testing to receive welfare. Thats at least a step in the right direction.
:word
Re: LOL - POLLS have libbies on suicide watch
Quote:
Originally Posted by
AirFlacco
Speaking of not reading Darb, a show polled a bunch of people that voted for OBY and almost all of them said O BUMMER
CARE was the reason. All the white women said that. They like me paying $10 pr mo for their condoms. Thank you Sandra.
However, none of them knew about the debt rising because of it nor did they care. When asked about the $18T debt, they
said so what. Even my nephew laughed at it and I said you won't be laughing when you're my age and poor. All your money
will be going to pay for it.
The population is so ill informed. As I keep saying, the most informed voters in the country are those of us in this forum
and on scout and freepers.
Nobody gets upset about the debt except us and when we try to cut it we're crucified.
google's number 1 seazrch on election day was
"who is running for president"
enough said about our "educated" voting base.
and per the above conversation... the problem wth the social services we have is the same problem we have with congress... no term limits. Increasing unemployment to 2 years or whatwever it is now is pure lunacy. After a couple of weeks on unemployment most people wait until its about to run out before they even START looking for work, at least above-board work. Because it benefits them to stay lazy. Why work your utt off for $10 an hour when you can get $8 to sit home and drink on your stoop? welfare that's available forever and increases as you pop out more kids? Really??? Permanent disability for someone in their 20's without requiring yearly checkups to prove they can't start working? because they get headaches??? REALLY?
Re: LOL - POLLS have libbies on suicide watch
Quote:
Originally Posted by
NCRAVEN
:Detroit is a perfect example of the abuse of those in power promising a safety net that has then turned into a program that almost discourages people from work.
Theres certainly alot of abusers there but at the same time im curious how it would be if manufacturing wasnt run out of there. Detroit used to be a thriving city and basically died over night. People needed the net but the economy never turned around for them to get off it. After awhile it does almost become part of the culture. Which isnt right. Now if they didnt get help theyd likely move, which alot have, for work but thats where i think youd start seeing ghost towns which to me detroit basically is.
Ill have to netflix cinderella man. That is exactly how its suppose to work. Just enough to survive and get you back on your feet. Right now with the way things are youd see a lot of people that arent trying to abuse it get hurt by enforcing the issue though.
Re: LOL - POLLS have libbies on suicide watch
Quote:
Originally Posted by
jonboy79
google's number 1 seazrch on election day was
"who is running for president"
enough said about our "educated" voting base.
and per the above conversation... the problem wth the social services we have is the same problem we have with congress... no term limits. Increasing unemployment to 2 years or whatwever it is now is pure lunacy. After a couple of weeks on unemployment most people wait until its about to run out before they even START looking for work, at least above-board work. Because it benefits them to stay lazy. Why work your utt off for $10 an hour when you can get $8 to sit home and drink on your stoop? welfare that's available forever and increases as you pop out more kids? Really??? Permanent disability for someone in their 20's without requiring yearly checkups to prove they can't start working? because they get headaches??? REALLY?
Two things. I looked up whos one my ballot on election day. I was just curious if johnson and the green party would be on my ballot or only write ins. Not sure how google trends works but that could be under the same and be completely relevant.
Second. Im not sure whos waiting for unemployment to run out to start. Thats just a poor decision because its not infinite and the end is very clear even if it is down the road. To me 10$/hr is still better than 8$/hr and you should be more willing. Those people id consider abusers as well but there are also people that look right away and cant find work. As many that are unemployed i wouldnt punish them for others lack of judgement. Again, punish those that are abusing not the ones in need. As a 27 year old ill be the first to say my generations work ethic is pathetic. Self entitlement runs rampant. Too many kids that got spoiled or something.
Re: LOL - POLLS have libbies on suicide watch
Quote:
Originally Posted by
JAB1985
Theres certainly alot of abusers there but at the same time im curious how it would be if manufacturing wasnt run out of there. Detroit used to be a thriving city and basically died over night. People needed the net but the economy never turned around for them to get off it. After awhile it does almost become part of the culture. Which isnt right. Now if they didnt get help theyd likely move, which alot have, for work but thats where i think youd start seeing ghost towns which to me detroit basically is.
Ill have to netflix cinderella man. That is exactly how its suppose to work. Just enough to survive and get you back on your feet. Right now with the way things are youd see a lot of people that arent trying to abuse it get hurt by enforcing the issue though.
Cinderella Man is a good movie (based on a true story) regardless of that point. Just reminded me of that when we were talking about it.
Re: LOL - POLLS have libbies on suicide watch
Quote:
Originally Posted by
NCRAVEN
Cinderella Man is a good movie (based on a true story) regardless of that point. Just reminded me of that when we were talking about it.
Honestly ive heard of it before just didnt see it yet. Im a movie buff so its not typical for me not to know that. Sounds pretty good though, cant go wrong with a true story. Siunds kind of familiar to the vince papalli movie, invincable? Down on his luck and instead of using the system he goes out and makes the eagles. No big deal im pretty sure theyd take anybody 260+ to play OL for them at the moment. Haha.
Re: LOL - POLLS have libbies on suicide watch
Quote:
Originally Posted by
JAB1985
Two things. I looked up whos one my ballot on election day. I was just curious if johnson and the green party would be on my ballot or only write ins. Not sure how google trends works but that could be under the same and be completely relevant.
Second. Im not sure whos waiting for unemployment to run out to start. Thats just a poor decision because its not infinite and the end is very clear even if it is down the road. To me 10$/hr is still better than 8$/hr and you should be more willing. Those people id consider abusers as well but there are also people that look right away and cant find work. As many that are unemployed i wouldnt punish them for others lack of judgement. Again, punish those that are abusing not the ones in need. As a 27 year old ill be the first to say my generations work ethic is pathetic. Self entitlement runs rampant. Too many kids that got spoiled or something.
when someone cahses their first check and are told they only have 47 MORE two week checks, I'd bet 80% or MORE stop looking for work that has taxes taken out... MOST will continue to look for under the table work to supplement their "free income". Furthermore, I'd bet a VERY large percentage of those on unemployment are in fact working illegaly. It is nto uncommon in the slightest, heck it wasn't that uncommon when you could only get 13 or 26 weeks, whatever it used to be before the great depression II...
FWIW, when i was in between jobs, right in the heart of all this crap, I refused to collect unemployment. I knew I'd get a job in a month or less because I was looking hard, and preferred to fall on the safety net of my family then the safety nt that is my future tax dollars. Wish more people felt that way. Ands I was someone that had to change industries as the mortgage market basically dried up overnight, causing me to be out of work. I worked for a brokerage that, in one week, went from 43 lenders to 8, 6 of which couldn't close a loan to save their lives.
Re: LOL - POLLS have libbies on suicide watch
Quote:
Originally Posted by
jonboy79
when someone cahses their first check and are told they only have 47 MORE two week checks, I'd bet 80% or MORE stop looking for work that has taxes taken out... MOST will continue to look for under the table work to supplement their "free income". Furthermore, I'd bet a VERY large percentage of those on unemployment are in fact working illegaly. It is nto uncommon in the slightest, heck it wasn't that uncommon when you could only get 13 or 26 weeks, whatever it used to be before the great depression II...
FWIW, when i was in between jobs, right in the heart of all this crap, I refused to collect unemployment. I knew I'd get a job in a month or less because I was looking hard, and preferred to fall on the safety net of my family then the safety nt that is my future tax dollars. Wish more people felt that way. Ands I was someone that had to change industries as the mortgage market basically dried up overnight, causing me to be out of work. I worked for a brokerage that, in one week, went from 43 lenders to 8, 6 of which couldn't close a loan to save their lives.
Gotta agree. A childhood friend of mine was out of work for 2 years. Never really looked for work just sat drank, smoked weed everyday and cashed that unemployment. I just can't understand how people can live like that. Since becoming a civilian again I've had a steady work for 3 years. With only about a month gap in between jobs. The laziness and stupidity of people never ceases to amazes.
"Never under estimate the predicatability of stupidity" - Bullet Tooth Tony
Re: LOL - POLLS have libbies on suicide watch
I had to go up to Chicago this weekend to watch the Monkees, so I'm a little disappointed to find out that the liberal hasn't come back around to voice his opinion.
I mean, it's not like the Liberals put their hands over their ears and sing "La-la-la-la-la" when confronted with the truth.... oh wait.
