Salary Cap Spreadsheet questions
New to the site and was checking out some of the material. Find the website to be very informative and a great resource for Ravens fans. Had some questions relating to the salary cap spreadsheet that Brian McFarland posts. I think the work on this Raven’s salary cap spreadsheet is excellent. Great resource to look at the team’s cap situation. Had a couple of quick questions for Brian or someone else:
• Noticed that Sean Considine’s cap number in the rule of 51 is less than his cap value. Any reason for that? Is this some kind of veteran exemption?
• Also Ramon Harewood and Sergio Kindle have cap numbers less than their base salaries? How does this occur?
• Ray Lewis appears to have a rather complicated bonus structure from what I’ve found on the web. I’ve read that there will be no cap hit if he retires after this year. Is that true? Will his signing bonus proration be fully exhausted? I suppose the other bonuses in later years were roster bonuses rather than option bonuses (recognized fully in the year of receipt as a salary cap hit)?
Looking ahead to 2013 and 2014...looks like we will need to hit some diamonds in the rough in this year and next year's draft if the rumors are true that the cap will not go up much over the next two years. Have big salary cap hits (greater than $10M/year) for Ngata ($16m by 2014), Suggs and Webb (starting in 2014). Guessing that Flacco and Rice will be big hits by 2014 (maybe sooner)as well assuming we resign them. Decent hits in those years also coming from Lewis, McClain, Yanda, Leach, and Boldin. Guessing that Lewis will be done. Could see Boldin as a cap casualty next year, maybe even Leach. At least we have little to no significant dead money likely to hit in 2013 at this point (Birk - $1.4M, possibly Carr/Foxworth if we push any of this year's hit to 2013 as a designated June 1st cut, assumes Ray Lewis is zero impact as rumored when/if he retires)
Re: Salary Cap Spreadsheet questions
I'm not looking at the spreadsheet, but the Rule of 51 means that in the off-season only the first 51 players on the roster count against cap calculations. So I assume that Harewood and Kindle aren't among the first 51 and therefore, despite drawing pay, don't count against the cap right now. (Perhaps a previous signing bonus may still carry over and count? Not sure). Would that answer your question?
Brian will eventually find your thread and answer it correctly.
Re: Salary Cap Spreadsheet questions
Doesn't appear to be the issue as all three players are in the top 51 paid players.
Re: Salary Cap Spreadsheet questions
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ravenryguy
New to the site and was checking out some of the material. Find the website to be very informative and a great resource for Ravens fans. Had some questions relating to the salary cap spreadsheet that Brian McFarland posts. I think the work on this Raven’s salary cap spreadsheet is excellent. Great resource to look at the team’s cap situation. Had a couple of quick questions for Brian or someone else:
• Noticed that Sean Considine’s cap number in the rule of 51 is less than his cap value. Any reason for that? Is this some kind of veteran exemption?
• Also Ramon Harewood and Sergio Kindle have cap numbers less than their base salaries? How does this occur?
• Ray Lewis appears to have a rather complicated bonus structure from what I’ve found on the web. I’ve read that there will be no cap hit if he retires after this year. Is that true? Will his signing bonus proration be fully exhausted? I suppose the other bonuses in later years were roster bonuses rather than option bonuses (recognized fully in the year of receipt as a salary cap hit)?
Hmm, thanks for pointing out Harewood's and Kindle's base salaries - those listed are wrong. The Cap numbers for both are correct, but the base salaries are worng, as you have pointed out. Harewood's base salary is $490K and Kindle's is $465K.
Considine's numbers are correct because of the Minimum Salary Benefit rule that allows teams to sign vested veteran players (those with 4 years of service time) to minimum salaried contracts (for Considine, a 8-year veteran, that's $825K) with no more than a $65K bonus, but only have the player's base salary count $540K against the Cap. So, for Considine, that's $540K, plus his $65K bonus, for a Cap number of $605K. This rule was put in place with the 2006 CBA to allow veteran players a fair chance at continuing to play, by making them more equal to the "cheaper labor" that younger players provided. It sort of leveled the playing field a bit more for the older guys.
As far as Ray goes, there will still be dead money in 2013 if he retires or is released. His bonuses were either signing bonuses or option bonuses, so they all prorated. None were roster bonuses. They'll still have $2.95M in bonus prorations to account for. They could take that all next year or take $1.9M in 2013 and $1.05M in 2014 with a June 1 release.
Quote:
Looking ahead to 2013 and 2014...looks like we will need to hit some diamonds in the rough in this year and next year's draft if the rumors are true that the cap will not go up much over the next two years. Have big salary cap hits (greater than $10M/year) for Ngata ($16m by 2014), Suggs and Webb (starting in 2014). Guessing that Flacco and Rice will be big hits by 2014 (maybe sooner)as well assuming we resign them. Decent hits in those years also coming from Lewis, McClain, Yanda, Leach, and Boldin. Guessing that Lewis will be done. Could see Boldin as a cap casualty next year, maybe even Leach. At least we have little to no significant dead money likely to hit in 2013 at this point (Birk - $1.4M, possibly Carr/Foxworth if we push any of this year's hit to 2013 as a designated June 1st cut, assumes Ray Lewis is zero impact as rumored when/if he retires)
They did not choose to use the June 1 designation on Carr, so they took the entire hit this year for his release. Foxworth was in the last year of his deal, so they had to take the entire hit this year for him.
Re: Salary Cap Spreadsheet questions
Brian,
Thanks for the reply!
Glad to hear the cap numbers were the right ones for Harewood and Kindle.
Makes sense on Considine...I recalled the veteran rule but didn't know if that remained in the new CBA. Is there a limit to the number of veteran signings can be made with the benefit? If so, how many veterans are you allowed to sign and use the benefit?
Unfortunate on Lewis' dead money risk, but your number is lower than what I was thinking it would be. I thought we'd have $4.8M of dead money (assuming signed deal in 2009 through 2015 for seven years, signing bonus of $6,250,000 in 2009 (prorate for 7 years), option bonus of $2,750,000 in 2010 (prorate for 6 years) and option bonus of $1,250,000 (prorate for 5 years) in 2011. If gone next year, I thought we'd have 3 years of dead money each of the bonus. With some further review, I found this at Rotoworld on Lewis's deal:
3/10/2009: Signed a three-year, $22 million contract. The deal contains $15.5 million guaranteed, including a $6.25 million signing bonus, a first-year roster bonus of $2.75 million, and a $1.25 million option bonus in the second season. 2012: $4.95 million, 2013: $5.4 million, 2014: $5.85 million, 2015: $6.3 million, 2016: Free Agent
I guess I was wrong on the roster vs option bonus and I don't know if there are limitations to the proration period...end of day I like your number more even if I'm struggling to understand the basis for it.
Only other contract that looked odd when I checked Rotoworld was Ed Reeds':
6/27/2006: Signed a six-year, $44.4 million contract extension through 2012. The deal contains $15 million guaranteed, including a $7.5 million signing bonus and option bonuses of $6 million and $1.5 million in the second and third years. 2012: $7.2 million, 2013: Free Agent
I see that you have a cap hit of $8.5M which is essentially the base salary and 1/6th of the signing bonus. Are there no impacts for option bonuses noted in the blurb or were they converted to roster bonuses (of course this information on Rotoworld might not be accurate).
Thanks again for the information...I've always been curious about the cap but had never seen anyone who had a good spreadsheet to look at the data. I hope I'm not offending you with the questions, just trying to get a better understading.
Re: Salary Cap Spreadsheet questions
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ravenryguy
Brian,
Thanks for the reply!
Glad to hear the cap numbers were the right ones for Harewood and Kindle.
Makes sense on Considine...I recalled the veteran rule but didn't know if that remained in the new CBA. Is there a limit to the number of veteran signings can be made with the benefit? If so, how many veterans are you allowed to sign and use the benefit?
Unfortunate on Lewis' dead money risk, but your number is lower than what I was thinking it would be. I thought we'd have $4.8M of dead money (assuming signed deal in 2009 through 2015 for seven years, signing bonus of $6,250,000 in 2009 (prorate for 7 years), option bonus of $2,750,000 in 2010 (prorate for 6 years) and option bonus of $1,250,000 (prorate for 5 years) in 2011. If gone next year, I thought we'd have 3 years of dead money each of the bonus. With some further review, I found this at Rotoworld on Lewis's deal:
3/10/2009: Signed a three-year, $22 million contract. The deal contains $15.5 million guaranteed, including a $6.25 million signing bonus, a first-year roster bonus of $2.75 million, and a $1.25 million option bonus in the second season. 2012: $4.95 million, 2013: $5.4 million, 2014: $5.85 million, 2015: $6.3 million, 2016: Free Agent
I guess I was wrong on the roster vs option bonus and I don't know if there are limitations to the proration period...end of day I like your number more even if I'm struggling to understand the basis for it.
Only other contract that looked odd when I checked Rotoworld was Ed Reeds':
6/27/2006: Signed a six-year, $44.4 million contract extension through 2012. The deal contains $15 million guaranteed, including a $7.5 million signing bonus and option bonuses of $6 million and $1.5 million in the second and third years. 2012: $7.2 million, 2013: Free Agent
I see that you have a cap hit of $8.5M which is essentially the base salary and 1/6th of the signing bonus. Are there no impacts for option bonuses noted in the blurb or were they converted to roster bonuses (of course this information on Rotoworld might not be accurate).
Thanks again for the information...I've always been curious about the cap but had never seen anyone who had a good spreadsheet to look at the data. I hope I'm not offending you with the questions, just trying to get a better understading.
Ray Lewis signed one of the oddest contracts you will ever see and I have given up trying to figure it out.
The Reed info is right, rotoworld only lists base salaries in their breakdowns as you have noted. Any bonuses Reed had in his deal were paid out long ago.
Re: Salary Cap Spreadsheet questions
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ravenryguy
Makes sense on Considine...I recalled the veteran rule but didn't know if that remained in the new CBA. Is there a limit to the number of veteran signings can be made with the benefit? If so, how many veterans are you allowed to sign and use the benefit?
No, there is no limit on how many veterans can be signed to minimum salary benefit deals.
Quote:
Unfortunate on Lewis' dead money risk, but your number is lower than what I was thinking it would be. I thought we'd have $4.8M of dead money (assuming signed deal in 2009 through 2015 for seven years, signing bonus of $6,250,000 in 2009 (prorate for 7 years), option bonus of $2,750,000 in 2010 (prorate for 6 years) and option bonus of $1,250,000 (prorate for 5 years) in 2011. If gone next year, I thought we'd have 3 years of dead money each of the bonus. With some further review, I found this at Rotoworld on Lewis's deal:
3/10/2009: Signed a three-year, $22 million contract. The deal contains $15.5 million guaranteed, including a $6.25 million signing bonus, a first-year roster bonus of $2.75 million, and a $1.25 million option bonus in the second season. 2012: $4.95 million, 2013: $5.4 million, 2014: $5.85 million, 2015: $6.3 million, 2016: Free Agent
I guess I was wrong on the roster vs option bonus and I don't know if there are limitations to the proration period...end of day I like your number more even if I'm struggling to understand the basis for it.
The Rotoworld info isn't completely accurate. He had a signing bonus ($6.25M) and two (2) option bonuses - $1.25M in 2010 and $2M in 2011. Under the terms of the CBA, the proration of each of those was maxed at 5 years.
Roster bonuses aren't prorated, they count 100% in the year they are paid, so his $2.75M roster bonus in the first year counted 100% in 2009.
Quote:
Only other contract that looked odd when I checked Rotoworld was Ed Reeds':
6/27/2006: Signed a six-year, $44.4 million contract extension through 2012. The deal contains $15 million guaranteed, including a $7.5 million signing bonus and option bonuses of $6 million and $1.5 million in the second and third years. 2012: $7.2 million, 2013: Free Agent
I see that you have a cap hit of $8.5M which is essentially the base salary and 1/6th of the signing bonus. Are there no impacts for option bonuses noted in the blurb or were they converted to roster bonuses (of course this information on Rotoworld might not be accurate).
Reed's signing bonus and 1st option bonus both prorated over 6 years (which was allowed by the CBA at the time), while his 2nd option bonus only prorated over 5 years. One-sixth of $6M + one-fifth of $1.5M is $1.3M, which is the proration that applies this year.
Re: Salary Cap Spreadsheet questions
Brian,
Thank you very much for the information and clarifications!
Much appreciated!
